BN66 - JR Judgement Day

[smalldog]

That's very interesting. I am considering remortgaging / using all my equity as the bulk of the funds. How does a charge against a property work?

I was considering a CTD but only because I could prove that I could pay, to get them to keep the dogs at bay. I'm using an offset mortgage at the moment, which is saving me a lot more interest on my mortgage than I would make on a CTD.

a second charge basically means when you come to sell it HMRC get a chunk its the same a having a loan or debt secured against your house....Now what I dont know is if HMRC could set a time limit by which the second charge needs to be realised..

[centurian]

Just to let anyone know fretting about possibly having to sell their house in future to pay any debt. I have it in writing from an HMRC official that they will take a second charge on a property to pay a debt, so dont panic....and if the property market picks back up which it appears to be then any interest accrued by the debt will be offset by property value growth...which is a damn sight better than sticking it in a CTD!!!!

and remember the CN's are still under appeal so dont worry about any door knocking...

I would add two notes of caution

I believe a charge can be used to force a sale - not sure of the exact term. Rarely happens, but this is HMRC we are talking about here.

You're using potential capital gains to pay for the interest. If you put the money in a CTD (which stops interest), you could still sell your house and take those gains at some point anyway. Of couse, that depends where you got the money from for the CTD in the first place (remortgaging etc.)


It may still be a viable option, but take care to analyse the scenarios.

[RockTheBoat]

I would add two notes of caution

I believe a charge can be used to force a sale - not sure of the exact term. Rarely happens, but this is HMRC we are talking about here.

as far as I know, a second charge can only be used to force a sale if you default on the charge (effectively it is a second mortgage). also remember that the first charge (i.,e. your primary mortage) takes precedence and that one would have to be satisfied first in the event of any sale. so as far as I know the second charge carries a lot less weight. I.e permission to force a sale would have to be agreed by the primary charge first (I stand under correction here)

[SantaClaus]

Ok, a question for you all on a 2nd charge.

I am assuming that a second charge on the house would increase the debt owed and the interest and mortgage payments would increase.

If this is true, some people would be forced to sell the house because the repayments would be too high.

EDIT:Just re-read Rock The Boat's post. A 2nd charge means they will be squeezing you until the pips are dry.

[RockTheBoat]

Well only so far.

say your property is worth a 100k. And your mortgage is worth 50k.
Then they could only get a second charge up to 50k.
And they would need to get approval from your mortgage co

[OldITGitWife]

centurian calm down

I would add two notes of caution

I believe a charge can be used to force a sale - not sure of the exact term. Rarely happens, but this is HMRC we are talking about here.

You're using potential capital gains to pay for the interest. If you put the money in a CTD (which stops interest), you could still sell your house and take those gains at some point anyway. Of couse, that depends where you got the money from for the CTD in the first place (remortgaging etc.)


It may still be a viable option, but take care to analyse the scenarios.

The revenue read this site. They must be rubbing their hands with glee.This is only the first round, they cannot do anything for another 28 days by which time we will have lodged an appeal. As far as I understand no further action can take place until the outcome.

[smalldog]

strategy

I agree they might think by reading this were all ready to throw in the towel. However discussing this for me at least, is purely working out my fallback strategy if the unthinkable happened....

[OnYourBikeGB]

I agree they might think by reading this were all ready to throw in the towel. However discussing this for me at least, is purely working out my fallback strategy if the unthinkable happened....

I agree, I don't think it is defeatest at all. Knowing there are ways I can afford to pay and to set those funds aside makes me stronger, not weaker. They won't be getting any of it until they have won outright, but in the doomsday scenario that they do, I don't want to be the position of them twisting my cojones (wince). And if they're taking any pleasure from this, let them. They've had a good week, but it mightn't last. There will be a lot of businesses getting a little nervous over what's happened. Just about everyone who has put a scheme number on their returns must be crapping themselves. Any business that is tax efficient may have been considering setting up here will be worried, those that are here may think twice before expanding, maybe even getting out. This may still turn out to be the biggest own goal they have ever scored. They might have just increased our support tenfold. AJ once bragged about all the tax schemes he had set up for big business to make major savings. This wasn't bull, he did. All those big businesses with schemes set up purely to avoid tax must be looking careful at how they can protect themselves and fight this if they need to. If HMRC go onto win, who's going to want to do business in Backtax UK?

I'm not going to live in fear of what they can do to me. The fights not over.

[SantaClaus]

I agree they might think by reading this were all ready to throw in the towel. However discussing this for me at least, is purely working out my fallback strategy if the unthinkable happened....

I agree. It's always worth discussing options, practical or not.

To paraphrase Margaret Thatcher, Santa is certainly not for turning!

[smalldog]

dont want to pay

dont get me wrong when I say this, I actually think we will eventually win and would never want to pay those bunch of terrorists. However nothing would give me greater pleasure, if I did end up having to pay than being able to phone them up the minute I get a demand and saying "do you take debit card?"....That would stop their enjoyment of sending their threatening letters, as unfortunately I actually feel they do get pleasure from it they seem sadistic.

The only time I have ever spoken to them was once when I paid my PAYE late, I had always paid on time and just forgot one month. What do you think their attitude was, friendly or accusatory like I was purposely trying to fiddle the system by not paying? their attitude sucks, and I suspect its a trickle down from the top of the pile...

I also agree with the people saying we have actually gained more in some ways by losing this round. After thinking about it, If we had won then HMRC would have appealed and fewer people would be taking notice, i.e. other people and companies who could be potentially affected by the decision. For us to have lost this round has serious ramifications for lots of people, if we'd won this round lots of people would have thought "job done" and just lost interest...this will be followed and scrutinised a lot from this point, in some ways its an own goal for HMRC...Not sure they quite realise that yet.