As regards being taxable on WORLD WIDE income after the 183 day rule working via a UK LTD , this surely means the EMPLOYEES world wide income? How can the Belgian tax authority legitimately tax the bank interest earned on the the employer's company's bank balance? At what point can a UK LTD become a Belgian company? How can a UK LTD become a Belgian company just because one of it's employees has worked/resided in Belgium for more than 183 days? Doesn't make sense to me?
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Contracting in Belgium - A Short Guide to Tax and Social Security
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OK Having read more I understand that it is to do with the relationship of the person working in Belgium being a director of the company and so as the director and sole manager if you like, works in Belgium then the Company effectively becomes Belgian (after 183 days in the Belgium - BTW this included travelling days. So flyng on a Sunday would count as one of the 183. Flying in Sunday night and leaving Thursday evening is 5 days!)Comment
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Originally posted by avamaria View PostOK Having read more I understand that it is to do with the relationship of the person working in Belgium being a director of the company and so as the director and sole manager if you like, works in Belgium then the Company effectively becomes Belgian (after 183 days in the Belgium - BTW this included travelling days. So flyng on a Sunday would count as one of the 183. Flying in Sunday night and leaving Thursday evening is 5 days!)Last edited by BlasterBates; 6 January 2012, 07:10.I'm alright JackComment
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183 days
Hi ,
I guess I need to get professional advice on that once and for all it is clear to me that people on this forum are operating their LTD from the UK which is sending them to Belgium and it is assumed the 183 rule applies to their Monday to Thursday (in-out).
About the UK LTD effectively becoming a Belgian company (which your suggesting starts from day 1) I would then expect the company to benefit from the allowances etc that a Belgian company is granted which I understand are quite substantial.
It seems to me that there is no compliant tax efficient way to work in Belgium. I'm face with working through my own LTD for 6 months (which you seem to suggest is not now going to work as I imagine as it will be belgian taxable on all its income from day 1) or I go with a dodgy management company whom I'd rather not having worked with these people before over the years in Germany, Belgium (ITECS) and France. Why are these companies still around? The only reason I can think of is that they have covered themselves legally but have duped the contractor in to believing that their way is compliant for them also until the tax man comes knocking. I think I will try and operate through my LTD as I know of no other compliant way.
Of course I could open a Belgian company but that is something that is not on my radar at the mo but would seem the only compliant tax efficient way to operate in Belgium. The whole situation is really frustrating even for someone who has be working around Europe for over 12 years.Comment
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Dividends in Belgium
Any one familiar with the argument that a belgian company can pay dividends into another country for a non-resident and that this does not count as Belgian income . Apparently according to some ManCos as this is legitimate as long as you are non-resident and therefore do not have to pay tax in world wide income. I know I know this sounds like dump question and I'm inexperienced in these matters but I would like to hear your reactions and I would like to know if any of you have any contact details (belgian accountants, BTA etc )that I can use to verify this.
thanksComment
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Originally posted by avamaria View PostOK Having read more I understand that it is to do with the relationship of the person working in Belgium being a director of the company and so as the director and sole manager if you like, works in Belgium then the Company effectively becomes Belgian (after 183 days in the Belgium
Originally posted by avamaria View PostBTW this included travelling days. So flyng on a Sunday would count as one of the 183. Flying in Sunday night and leaving Thursday evening is 5 days!)
BooLast edited by Boo; 14 January 2012, 23:29.Comment
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Originally posted by BlasterBates View PostNo don't get fooled by the 183 day rule that doesn't apply to businesses. For example you pick up a load in Antwerp and drop in Liege that's taxable even if you are a self-employed lorry driver from the Netherlands. That's a specific rule for lorry drivers. Basically there is a limit of 5 days a month for business trips anything beyond that would be taxable as a business in Belgium. The 183 day rule would mean all your other income would be taxable. So let us say you do most of your work in the UK but pop over to Belgium, that's fine, but if you're working in Belgium then you should tax it in Belgium.
BooComment
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Originally posted by avamaria View PostI guess I need to get professional advice on that once and for all
Originally posted by avamaria View Postit is clear to me that people on this forum are operating their LTD from the UK which is sending them to Belgium and it is assumed the 183 rule applies to their Monday to Thursday (in-out).
Originally posted by avamaria View PostIt seems to me that there is no compliant tax efficient way to work in Belgium. I'm face with working through my own LTD for 6 months (which you seem to suggest is not now going to work as I imagine as it will be belgian taxable on all its income from day 1) or I go with a dodgy management company whom I'd rather not having worked with these people before over the years in Germany, Belgium (ITECS) and France. Why are these companies still around?
You should not use an umbrella or DMC in Belgium. The number of times they have been proven to be crooks is beyond belief : they will lie to you about your tax situation, short change you by taking more than the agreed percentage, they will withhold sums with paltry excuses about 13 month years, they will rook you rotten. And you have no guarantees they will pay the tax they say they will pay on your behalf. If they spend it on beer and then fold leaving behind only a trail of false addresses you will have no comeback. And the BTA will be on your back for the missing tax. Trust me, you really don't want a Belgian Umbrella or DMC.
Originally posted by avamaria View PostOf course I could open a Belgian company but that is something that is not on my radar at the mo but would seem the only compliant tax efficient way to operate in Belgium. The whole situation is really frustrating even for someone who has be working around Europe for over 12 years.
As I said above, it's pretty easy to meet a Belgian accountant, do that and listen to what s/he says.
Good luck,
BooComment
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help...
Hi,
In my quest to solve a problem that I don't know if I have, because in Portugal everytime I call the Financial Authorities they tell me something different, and my accountant is making things too simple, as is my hiring company in Belgium, I have found this website.
I am not Brittish, I am a Portuguese national but I have found this forum to be very helpful and have knowledgeable people here! So I ask you to please answer my questions, as I'm in quite a bit of despair right now.
Got a job offer for a 290€/day rate in Brussels. Hiring company (reputable north american consulting company in IT), made it quite simple:
1 - Take a permanent contract with them.
or
2 - Come to Belgium with your portuguese company for 6 months maximum. After that time I would have to either take a permanent contract, go freelancer, or open a company in belgium.
If I knew then what I know now I would have taken the 1st choice.
Facts:
1 - Starting on the 6th of February. I will move tomorrow to Belgium. Too late to say no to the offer.
2 - I have a one-man company in Portugal. I am the sole shareholder and sole manager at this point. Opened in January 2012 and worked for it around 3 weeks while in Portugal.
3 - I have a wage and a per diem rate to support my stay in Belgium.
4 - I stay 7 days a week in Belgium and I will rent a flat.
Questions:
1 - Should I tell Portugal I am going?
2 - Should I inscribe in Limosa (i think so).
3 - Does the 183 days rule apply to companies?
4 - Situation A:
If after little less than 6 months I decide to come back home to Portugal and leave Belgium: will the Belgium authorities tell my company to pay taxes there?
5 - Situation B:
If after 6 months I close my company in Portugal and decide to take a permanent job contract in Belgium: will I have to pay IPF (Impot des personnes physiques) in Belgium for what I received from my Portuguese company in 2012? Will my company be expected to pay its taxes in Belgium instead of Portugal, for those 6 months (center of vital interests) ??
Please, shed me some light on this.
I think my first think on arriving in brussels will be finding a place and finding an ACCOUNTANT. Could you refer me to a good accountant in brussels? How much would it cost to ask him a few questions?Comment
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Originally posted by portugueseinbelgium View PostFacts:
1 - Starting on the 6th of February. I will move tomorrow to Belgium. Too late to say no to the offer.
Originally posted by portugueseinbelgium View PostQuestions:
1 - Should I tell Portugal I am going?
Originally posted by portugueseinbelgium View PostQuestions:
2 - Should I inscribe in Limosa (i think so).
Originally posted by portugueseinbelgium View Post3 - Does the 183 days rule apply to companies
4 - Situation A:
If after little less than 6 months I decide to come back home to Portugal and leave Belgium: will the Belgium authorities tell my company to pay taxes there?
Originally posted by portugueseinbelgium View PostQuestions:
5 - Situation B:
If after 6 months I close my company in Portugal and decide to take a permanent job contract in Belgium: will I have to pay IPF (Impot des personnes physiques) in Belgium for what I received from my Portuguese company in 2012? Will my company be expected to pay its taxes in Belgium instead of Portugal, for those 6 months (center of vital interests) ??
Of course you could argue that the contract with your Portugese company is entirely distinct from that of your new Belgian company and just tax your first 6 months in Portugal and earnings after that in Belgium. I don't know what the BTA will think about that though...
Originally posted by portugueseinbelgium View PostI think my first think on arriving in brussels will be finding a place and finding an ACCOUNTANT. Could you refer me to a good accountant in brussels? How much would it cost to ask him a few questions?
Good luck,
BooComment
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