Confused over expense claims/P11d

[css_jay99]

Have heard various versions myself (we had this argument on CUK last year I think) but generally it is only things that might be a a BIK, like accomodation etc, that really need to go on P11D.

sorry to bring this up again, but Thats what i thought as well.

I have never submitted a PIID (4 yrs).

Any company expenses (i.e hotel bill, mileage claim, company bits & bobs ) paid by me are reinbursed by my Ltd company each month end. I dont use my company card for personal purchases.

Since I have not benefited in anyway on these expenses then surely there is no need to fill out a P11D since there wont be any charge on me.

Am I wrong ?


css_jay99

[expat]

sorry to bring this up again, but Thats what i thought as well.

I have never submitted a PIID (4 yrs).

Any company expenses (i.e hotel bill, mileage claim, company bits & bobs ) paid by me are reinbursed by my Ltd company each month end. I dont use my company card for personal purchases.

Since I have not benefited in anyway on these expenses then surely there is no need to fill out a P11D since there wont be any charge on me.

Am I wrong ?


css_jay99

Possibly.

Putting something on a P11D doesn't mean that it is a personal expense and therefore not allowable. You must put something in the P11D if it might be, or might have been, a personal expense (as IR35 Avoider said, in HMRC's opinion, not yours). For example, a hotel bill might have been a personal expense: the fact that in a given case it was not, does not take it off the P11D.

If in fact it was not a personal expense, you make that claim later in your personal capacity, by writing to HMRC and saying so.

[FSM with Cheddar]

My accountant has told me that HMRC are no longer interested in the listing of every expense that has been claimed, where there is no BIK.

Where it does get a bit blurry is when you claim stuff like your mobile phone etc.

[Little'Old Me]

Some HMRC offices are trying to insist P11d's are completed to ensure that directors complete Tax returns to reclaim the tax relief on the expenses etc... Other offices are only interested in the BIK which are taxable.

Ironically company credit cards are actual considered to be a BIK in their own right! I recently saw a question on accountancy web asking if they should report the transactions from company bank debit cards on a P11d!

I work on the basis, that if I would report it on a P11d if the company wrote the cheque to pay the expense, then it does not matter what method was actually used. Otherwise it is not reportable.

A good friend, who runs a payroll bureau told me that she was told during a PAYE inspection that the Petty cash expenses should be reported on a P11d if they were initially "reimbursed"... She decided to ignore the advice given by the HMRC employee, as she also know, fortunately there are normally more senior and experienced members of HMRC to whom it is possible to "appeal" to for common sense to prevail.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Ironically company credit cards are actual considered to be a BIK in their own right!

Its not as simple as that. If it is a company credit card used by an employee with permission from the company to make a company-related purchase then it doesn't have to go on the P11D and is definitely not a BIK.[1]

However, company credit cards issued to an employee to be used for general business expenses (e.g. out of pocket, travel, accommodation etc.) where the balance is paid by the company each month are reportable on the P11D (but not necessarily a BIK if its only used for legitimate business expenses).[2]

[1] http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employers/ebi.../credit-01.htm
[2] http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employers/ebi.../credit-04.htm

More information from HMRC

In practice, to keep things simple, I make sure I only ever use my company credit card for company purchases (equipment, insurance, that kind of thing) and pay for all of my out-of-pocket expenses personally and put in an expense claim each month.

[AH01]

Mrs H

Hi
I'm new and I have read through these threads..forgive me if I have missed something but I would really appreciate your help.
I am as we all are plodding through the P11's.

On the form it clearly states that if you have earnt £8500 or more you have to return these forms. That's fine however this year and last year we did not and only took dividends. Does that mean that we do not have to submit still. Our accountant has always completed these forms- until we left recently so i am free falling and have no clue.

Also mobile phones - they are paid through he company however not in the company's name. Do I put these on or do I have to put them on a personal tax return.

Really would appreciate help
thanks
AH

[Clare@InTouch]

Hi
I'm new and I have read through these threads..forgive me if I have missed something but I would really appreciate your help.
I am as we all are plodding through the P11's.

On the form it clearly states that if you have earnt £8500 or more you have to return these forms. That's fine however this year and last year we did not and only took dividends. Does that mean that we do not have to submit still. Our accountant has always completed these forms- until we left recently so i am free falling and have no clue.

Also mobile phones - they are paid through he company however not in the company's name. Do I put these on or do I have to put them on a personal tax return.

Really would appreciate help
thanks
AH

You'll still have to complete the forms if you're a director, regardless of the £8,500 exemption.

If the 'phones are not in the company name then they will be a BIK, so add them into the P11D, not your tax return. The data from the P11D is then transferred to the tax return on the Employment Pages.

:-)

[xoggoth]

True, you do have to complete if director. Note there are some things that do not need to be reported on P11D if you only claim approved amounts.

PIE £5 per night away
Mileage 40p to 10k miles or 25p over 10k miles
Home as office £3 pw

There's an A to Z reference of expenses and what you need to report.

HM Revenue & Customs: Expenses and benefits A to Z

[SackmanandCo]

Technically it does need to go on P11d but you can apply for a dispensation to avoid the paperwork. HMRC do actually encourage this.

[Clare@InTouch]

Technically it does need to go on P11d but you can apply for a dispensation to avoid the paperwork. HMRC do actually encourage this.

The point of a dispensation is to allow you to not declare non-taxable items. With a mobile phone this would only be the case if the business were purely paying for identifiable business calls, not if it were paying the whole bill.

HM Revenue & Customs: Telephones - mobile