. . Germany - the taxman cometh

[LonelyRider]

I have been told that the moment, after which a self accusation or correction is no longer possible, is the time when an investigation has been officially opened and you have been informed about it, either by a letter or personally.

The law also states that it is no longer possible, after your tax advisor's premises have been visited. However, I do not know how this applies to Mr H's clients. I have understood that his office was raided and the investigations against his clients were started after that, so the raid cannot be understood as the moment, when his clients were informed about ongoing investigations against them.

[xiao147]

It also turned out that they are really carrying out a larger investigation on the activities of Mr H, and maybe in this case all his clients and former clients can expect to be visited personally.

Hmmm - just found this thread...

What if a client left Germany a couple of years ago and the authorities have no way of contacting them (no current address etc)?

What concerns me is that a client may know nothing about whether an investigation has started on them, and then get a surprise at some german airport on their next visit...

Also, what makes you think they will visit ALL clients (that go through MC A)? Maybe they will draw a line for those where the amounts involved are much less...

[LonelyRider]

Well, I would think someone must have your address, for example the tax authorities of your home country. I don't think the fact that the current address is not in their files stops them from starting the investigation.

As Codekid mentioned earlier, one is entitled to enquire, whether an investigation has been started against him. The surprise in an airport in Germany or any Schengen country is a possibility, but I don't know how likely it is.

At this point they do not know the sums involved for each individual. They have Mr H's files, which show who has been his and MC A's client. I have understood the investigations have been opened based on those files. Not all of the people investigated have enormous amounts involved in this mess.

However, I was told that if the matter is older than 5-6 years, criminal investigation is unlikely. Even in this case the authorities may still request payment of unpaid taxes.

[CodeKid]

Hmmm - just found this thread...

What if a client left Germany a couple of years ago and the authorities have no way of contacting them (no current address etc)?

What concerns me is that a client may know nothing about whether an investigation has started on them, and then get a surprise at some german airport on their next visit...

Also, what makes you think they will visit ALL clients (that go through MC A)? Maybe they will draw a line for those where the amounts involved are much less...

Many (not all) EC countries have joint agreements to help each other in matters of tax evasion/recovery and UK-GE have such an agreement established only in recent years. This means that the GE authorities can ask UK HMRC to recover a tax debt, but I think its only possible if the F-amt have issued a final claim and it is not under dispute. (I'll post the source of that later)

In the scenario you describe, I expect the F-amt can at least get your UK address from HMRC then write to you. If they dont bother to write, or if they do and you ignore it then they maybe they can raise a final claim and eventually (in theory) you could get a visit from HMRC bailiffs (hopefully preceded by some polite correspondence). I have heard that this happened in one case (but could just be a F-amt scare story)

If you are under investigation and you happen to visit GE then who is to say that you are not on a watch list, in which case there is nothing to stop the authorities arresting you when you arrive at Immig from a non-schengen country. I suppose they have to get a warrant, in similar way as for searching your premises. But it is well known in GE that the F-amt use search and arrest as tactics to scare the s**t out of folk and get them to fess up. So maybe the warrants are readily issued. Then they can demand bail (Kaution).

Once again, it is all down to their workload and how much is involved. But if they are investigating a big manco scheme, they might consider it important to gather a lot of info from relative "minnows". If someone thinks they may have an outstanding debt and are going to GE then be sure to take your C-card cos the chance exists that you'll get pullled and have to cough up several thou Euro as a Kaution.

Like most others (excluding our resident "agent provocatuers") all of the above I have gleaned from copious googling incl on German sites.


CK

[NotAllThere]

Many (not all) EC countries have joint agreements to help each other in matters of tax evasion/recovery and UK-GE have such an agreement established only in recent years. This means that the GE ...

DE

didn't you notice the suffix on all those sites you've been googling?

[CodeKid]

DE

didn't you notice the suffix on all those sites you've been googling?

I guess that's how you rack up 3747 posts !
(Or should that be 3,747)

[xiao147]

If the client does not live in the UK (or the EU) but the HMRC's last address is, for example, the client's parents' home. Hmmm, I think the client's parents would not like a visit from the bailiffs!

Wouldn't they check first to make sure the client is actually living there? How can they check this? How to make sure they know that address is no longer valid?

Also, what sort of fines are involved? What is the likelihood of getting a criminal record etc?

As someone said earlier, the problem with finding out whether you are under investigation is that cause raise a flag in itself.

[expat]

If the client does not live in the UK (or the EU) but the HMRC's last address is, for example, the client's parents' home. Hmmm, I think the client's parents would not like a visit from the bailiffs!

Wouldn't they check first to make sure the client is actually living there

It's not a problem for them. They send in the bailiffs who seize £20k worth of your parents' stuff and sell it for £4k. If your parents later prove that it wasn't them they were after, they give your parents the £4k back.

[tim123]

It's not a problem for them. They send in the bailiffs who seize £20k worth of your parents' stuff and sell it for £4k. If your parents later prove that it wasn't them they were after, they give your parents the £4k back.

Fortunately, in the UK, it doesn't work like that!

tim

[NotAllThere]

I guess that's how you rack up 3747 posts !
(Or should that be 3,747)

3757 now.

Inattention to details. That's how you get screwed by the tax authorities.