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. . Germany - the taxman cometh

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    Batten down the hatches

    Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!


    Following on from Blightboys wake-up call, I’d like to share a practical view with you:

    Let’s assume you’ve been happily working away with all income properly taxed (yes, some people actually do this !). Let’s further assume that your agent is taking a massive whack (as they generally do) and for some reason, the authorities take a look at the agents books (perhaps simply because they provide a load of IT folk who by their definition tend to be a slippery lot),

    The authorites look at the big difference between what the agent charges and what you receive, they put 2 and 2 together to make 5 and assume that you must be filching some amount away in a hideyhole. Herein lies the problem: according to the GE law, the onus is on the individual to prove otherwise. (By the by I stumbled across an opinion on that on the net from a major accounting firm who considered that to try to prosecute on that basis would not be enforceable because it conflicts with GE constitution). Continuing on…..to prove your case they expect you to present them with all bank and savings account info and explain where every penny came from. What then stops them then trying to claim that everything and anything in those accounts was “worldwide income subject to GE tax”. So then your are faced with paying a tax lawyer 100 euro per hour (min) to essentially prove that you are squeaky or have only some small underdeclaration. Bolloks to that.

    There are or course cases in between. Some people may have (knowingly or unknowingly) underdeclared nothing, something or a lot. And we have the authorities very sensitised because of the O2 debacle and some significant abuses using MSCs. If you are squeaky or let’s say “small fish” then you could easily end up forking out serious dosh and even then they could try to take you unjustly for amounts that are not “income” at all.

    Therefore we can conclude that Blightboy is indeed right – assuming that your affairs are “in order” then tell them to bring it on - because if they don’t have sufficient evidence, they wont. It WONT stop them trying the bullyboy tactics. They will ask for papers etc because they know fine well they cant easily get them or get them at all. But if you open up your affairs in good faith, their unjust crap law about “onus of proof” can end up getting you shafted.

    (Selected idioms included for the benefit of our resident agent provocateurs)




      Blightyboy - under normal circumstances I agree - you have to be pretty unlucky. I've read the whole thread and everyones opinions.
      The facts are:-
      In the last couple of years the tax amt has been energised - from the political top.
      Both the Lichtenstein and O2 / Mr H thing got split open- which inevitably is splitting other things open.
      There were a lot of people connected in some way to Mr H. and I reckon that few of them will be overlooked - so for them, things are looking less rosy...
      The facts are that, whereas for many, many years nothing was happening, there is now a lot of activity.
      I am not sure how this whole thing will end up, but I guess it will be very fotunate if it just fizzles out. More likely there will be more action before this thing goes away - the t man now has too much face to loose...


        Originally posted by BlightyBoy View Post
        Our grandfather's stood up to these Fascist Bullyboys in 1939, don't you pussies think you should be doing the same!!
        Brexit is having a wee in the middle of the room at a house party because nobody is talking to you, and then complaining about the smell.


          Our grandfather's stood up to these Fascist Bullyboys in 1939, don't you pussies think you should be doing the same!!

          Well Said Sir !

          We dont want to fight - but by Jingo - if we have to ...


            Most clients in germany will insist you are employed compliantly as chain law there means that the tax liability falls on them should the contractor... erm ... go missing. I've heard of several large clients getting hit for millions in fines

            Originally posted by BlightyBoy View Post
            It even goes further than that, a Finanzamt only has jurisdiction WITHIN IT'S OWN REGION!! They aren't even totally omnipotent within their own country!
            That would be so nice if it was true

            They have the right to do on the spot audits on anyone who has registered with them... now you might not have registered, maybe there is the outside chance that the MC hasnt. But they know this and is why they target the clients, they are all registered and can be audited any time and this specificaly includes the temp staff. Tax dodging is a criminal thing in germany so no client is gunna stick his neck on the block for me.
            I dunno if i would take the risk. and thats what its all about. risk.

            Also bear in mind that most of europe is feeling the economy atm, and most countrys are trying to generate as much cash as possible so clamping down on foriegn workers is a obvious income stream for all countries



              Found this interesting article:

              Originally posted by darmstadt View Post
              Anyway got to Bonn and met up with 2 guys from seperate companies and then visited the customer. They told me what they had and wanted, I told them what I knew although they had already read my CV. Asked me when I can start and that was after about 30 minutes chit-chat, not bad and sorted. 3 days a week which can be variable up until the end of the year with a possibility of another 3 years and in the public sector (a ministry and to do with money.) Oh and 10€ an hour more than the previous contractm nice.
              Makes you wonder whose side he bats for, doesn't it??


                Originally posted by AlfredJPruffock View Post
                They'll never accept you - no matter how many years you live there - in their eyes you are always The Auslander.
                And so it is, sadly in many a European country...even if you're born there. 'Pure blood' and all that...


                  Originally posted by BlightyBoy View Post
                  Found this interesting article:

                  Makes you wonder whose side he bats for, doesn't it??
                  Brilliant !
                  The tax guys are only human, doin' their job, its the (poor) deception that offends.


                    anyone seen this

                    so lets hear the fighting talk now...
                    Watch other countries climb on the band wagon...

                    UBS to reveal Swiss Bank records

                    Banking giant UBS will pay 780 million dollars (£549m) and turn over once-secret Swiss bank records to settle claims that it conspired to defraud the US government of taxes owed by thousands of American clients.

                    As part of the deal struck in a federal court in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, UBS has made the unprecedented step of agreeing to immediately turn over to the US government account information for US customers of the bank's cross-border business.

                    In doing so, government authorities have made a big crack in Switzerland's vaunted bank secrecy laws.

                    UBS will pay £549 million in fines, penalties, interest and restitution for conspiring to create sham accounts to hide from the US government the assets of American clients.
                    The financial hit on UBS is more than double the penalty imposed just last month against Lloyds TSB Bank for helping its clients skirt US sanctions against Sudan, Iran, and Libya.

                    "We accept full responsibility for these improper activities," Peter Kurer, chairman of Swiss-based UBS AG, said in a statement.

                    He added that the bank was determined to abide by the terms of the deal with US criminal and securities officials.

                    "Client confidentiality, to which UBS remains committed, was never designed to protect fraudulent acts or the identity of those clients, who, with the active assistance of bank personnel, misused the confidentiality protections," he said on Wednesday.

                    Around 17,000 American clients concealed their UBS accounts from the Internal Revenue Service, the US tax-collection agency, hiding assets of about £14 billion in total, US officials said.

                    According to US officials, when an acquisition in 2000 of a US company brought UBS a host of new American clients, the bank set about to evade new reporting requirements for those clients. To do so, UBS executives helped US taxpayers open new accounts in the names of sham entities.


                      and the fun and games don't end there


                      I bet there are a lot of 'high profile' people (presidents and monarchies included) that are seriously worried ...

                      And on top of that - have you ever wondered where all the tax money is coming from to pay the 'bailouts' ?
                      An example is the recent demonstrations in France where people were asking how the governments could suddenly cough up hundreds of billions for the banks when the population had been asking for better social services for years and had always been told that there was no money..


                      So - going on the above link, tax avoiders could go to jail for refusing to pay tax due 'on nothing'!