Friday 13th, unlucky for some...

[Cyberman]

Oki doki (as a German collegue always used to IM me) but is that 45k before or after tax? If its before then its farily low for an IT job unless its a not very demanding one. Remember that if you're a single person that around 54% of this will be deductions so we'll say you have take home of maybe 25k which leaves you with 2k each month to live on. From that you're going to have to pay rent and depending on what type of property and where you live this can be quite expensive, I pay €1200 a month so you might struggle a bit...Then there are your utilites, food, transport, etc. Think carefully about it

Interesting.... It is a lot more than I was getting in 2003 and I lived in Frankfurt and was paying 500 Euros a month very close to Alt Sachsenhausen for quite a nice studio flat. 45,000 Euros could very soon equal 45,000 pounds, and that to me is a reasonable salary for a permie. I am not totally sure of the role yet but I am assured that it is more technical than admin, and involving development, which is what I prefer.

I certainly did not struggle on that money in Frankfurt, did not find it at all expensive, flew or drove home to the UK once a month, and also had a great social life, probably aided by my willingness to learn advanced german at nightschool. I still have many friends there including an ex-girlfriend.

[Francko]

The 13th month I reiterate is standard, and again it just proves your ignorance.

CyberIgnorant, am afraid you keep proving yours.*

The 13th and/or 14th salary must be included in your contract and is regulated by law. As such it has to be included in your gross salary.

What you are talking about is just a bonus which some companies give away as an extra salary (hence the similarity with a 13th salary). But again it's not the 13th salary as contracts legally can claim which is regulated in a Collective Labour Agreement. In a permanent job in Italy we had the 13th and 14th salary as per contract (of course, included in the gross salary) and a yearly bonus, which we called 15th salary and that was outside gross salary (but legally cannot be called 15th salary as yours cannot be called 13th salary).

* Besides weren't you the one who said you go against opinion but not people? I think you are rather CyberFake too.

[Cyberman]

CyberIgnorant, am afraid you keep proving yours.*

The 13th and/or 14th salary must be included in your contract and is regulated by law. As such it has to be included in your gross salary.

What you are talking about is just a bonus which some companies give away as an extra salary (hence the similarity with a 13th salary). But again it's not the 13th salary as contracts legally can claim which is regulated in a Collective Labour Agreement. In a permanent job in Italy we had the 13th and 14th salary as per contract (of course, included in the gross salary) and a yearly bonus, which we called 15th salary and that was outside gross salary (but legally cannot be called 15th salary as yours cannot be called 13th salary).

* Besides weren't you the one who said you go against opinion but not people? I think you are rather CyberFake too.

Now you're getting abusive because I proved you wrong Francko. You said that the 13th month did not exist and I have confirmation from Darmstadt. Caught hook, line and sinker, and your ignorance proven in spades !!

[Francko]

Now you're getting abusive because I proved you wrong Francko. You said that the 13th month did not exist and I have confirmation from Darmstadt. Caught hook, line and sinker, and your ignorance proven in spades !!

I would like to know why I am being abusive while I am just repeating the same things you are telling me. You are telling me I am ignorant and I am telling you so. Yet I am the only abusive person.

Besides, I did not say that 13th month do not exist. I do perfectly know they exist (I have one myself too) but my only point is that they are included in the gross salary. The fact that some companies might decide to give a bonus in a form of a 13th yearly payment doesn't make it the "13th salary" which in the rest of europe is a contractual form of payment.

[Cyberman]

Francko..... go back to your first post on this thread where you state 'Man you are a disaster etc etc etc', if you want proof that you were abusive. I simply continued in the vein in which you started, which I firmly believe you deserve. Sorry if I hurt your feelings .......

[Sysman]

Oki doki (as a German collegue always used to IM me) but is that 45k before or after tax?

Going back longer than I care to admit... When I did a couple of months in Holland I quickly realised that when folks there talked about how much they earned, they tended to quote what hit the bank per month after tax and social deductions, and not their yearly gross. That actually struck me as a more meaningful indicator of your salary, and also explains why the 13th month was considered "extra".

I also noticed that in Switzerland at least one agency always seemed to get the terms "netto" and "brutto" (net and gross) the wrong way around.

The moral of this is that when comparing cross border pay you need to be extremely careful that you are comparing like with like.

P.S. Congrats on your negotiations.