BN66 - Time to fight back (Chapter 3)

[seadog]

Just received my closure notices so time to say hello all.

No I wont be writing to my MP as I dont have one
I may sign the petition but unlikely as I dont believe it makes the slightest difference
Yes I've sent a testimonial
Fingers crossed on 16th

Hello travellingknob well come to the forum. Signing the petion is just one of the many ways in whcih we are trying to raise the profile of this matter.

If you are following the forum you will be aware that as a result of a lot of hard worjk by a few members who have been instrumental in getting this campaign off the ground we have managed to get the Joint Committee on Human rights to take up the case.

You might reflect on the efforts that others have put in to overcome S58 and offer them whatever support they ask.

[rosbiff]

This is a really significant step - and combined with the JCHR - has certainly moved things into our favour.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the JCHR ?

[SantaClaus]

...
I would like to know how we can force them to show their motivation for bringing this, is there a legal route we can use when they block the FOI requests so easily? I hope the JCHR can demand to see the documents. I think they are playing games with us, they don't give a damn about how they destroy families. After all, they do it every day of the week. And there is nothing we can do except fight our cause and stop them destroying us. But they will be able to do it again to someone else. If on the other hand they are playing games with the law to achieve this, then heads should roll and these sort of tactics could be stopped...

As has been show with MPs expenses, nobody in govt. or the civil service is exempt from being found out one day.

Message to Mr YouKnowWho (TM) and his cronies: If you are guilty of irregularities, I would say think very carefully about your future job security.

[KiwiGuy]

Well Done

Great News on the JR

[seadog]

I agree with DR. I think this whole thing is very odd. They used the same defence that they scraped through with a few weeks ago, except this time it was even weaker? I think this is a bigger game, like DR says. They don't give a damn about you and me or the devastation that it causes to families. Their job is to keep the money rolling into the treasury. They haven't lost a thing by this rolling on. I think they already know they are unlikely to ever see a penny of our money, but they're sending a message to other scheme makers that they will make their customers lives misery. In the end, they're going to win overall, even if we carry the day. I don't think for a second they're thick. For a crap defence like that, they're costing MP et al some serious money, both in legal costs and in lost potential customers. I think they're having maximum effect for minimum cost.

I would like to know how we can force them to show their motivation for bringing this, is there a legal route we can use when they block the FOI requests so easily? I hope the JCHR can demand to see the documents. I think they are playing games with us, they don't give a damn about how they destroy families. After all, they do it every day of the week. And there is nothing we can do except fight our cause and stop them destroying us. But they will be able to do it again to someone else. If on the other hand they are playing games with the law to achieve this, then heads should roll and these sort of tactics could be stopped.

It has been a great day for us. It was a great relief. Hopefully there's plenty more to come. I'm off to the nearby ATM to draw out some of the ringfenced money, and I'm going to pour it down my throat. And when its worked its way through and leaving me, I'll still be thinking of Mr B and friends . I might even get some up-market crisps! Cheers everyone, and thanks as always to those who have led and those that have attended. Thank the Supreme Being(s) (how PC is that?) for this forum.

I was off line till midnight last night but got a text to advise me of the JR result. I slept a lot better knowing that we have an opportunity to have the case heard by an independent judge.

Although the alleged tax due is £100m to £200M this is a fraction of what HMRC are trying to recover on other tax avoidance cases. HMRC have a constant cat and mouse game with big and small players alike, so we should not feel like we have been singled out or that we are being made a special case.

The retrospective legislation was unusual but perhaps HMRC thought this was a neat way of shutting down a loophole and collecting backtax at the same time. It looks as though that tactic did not succeed. Not only has it resulted in JR's in the UK but also in ECHR and now an inquiry by the JCHR.

From their point of view this is just part of the onging battle to gather more tax for the Treasury, as they say, to collect what they think is rightfully due.

I don't doubt how devious underhand and economical with the truth that HMRC the Treasury and of course the polititions can be.

Let's be grateful that " the system" is working and when we have a our day in court it will be just one of many cases which HMRC lose.

We can do some resarch to see how long it takes for JR's to get heard but I suspect it will be 9 to 12 months. As some said earlier we will now get disclosure which means treasury will have to reveal all relavent papers etc to MontP.

They will not be able to bring surprise killer arguments up woithout revealing them beforehand but that does not mean they do not have other arguments which have not yet been revealed . It sounds as though MontP's QC was on the ball so we can rest easy that he will not lie down and get rolled over.

Let's bask in the sunshine of success for a while and build up for the JR battle probably next year.

Work on other fronts goes on.

[BrilloPad]

Let's bask in the sunshine of success for a while and build up for the JR battle probably next year.

Work on other fronts goes on.

WHS

A couple of people have contacted me to say that talk of champagne is premature. We should be very very happy : but a long way to go and still much work to be done in way of writing to MPs and other tasks that DR is not doubt dreaming up now!

No way are we complacent : we are going to win this through hard work and toil.

[Fog]

JR Process

http://www.publiclawproject.org.uk/d...deToJRProc.pdf

I am sure that the attached has already been viewed by many but I found it a good summary of the JR process. Interestingly section 11 (part 2) states that a full JR takes between 6 months - 1 year to happen.....

As expected a long way to go.....

Fog

[smalldog]

RE: Interest accruing

but hold on a minute, I heard a few posts back that someone was told by HMRC that they couldnt pay on account or get an rebates on overpayments of tax years. The account was frozen, so if you arent allowed to pay the debt then surely it implies the interest is frozen too?

[mossman]

Interest

Spoke to Montp yesterday. They said interest will still be clocking up, so it's still a CTD if you want to stop it.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

but a long way to go and still much work to be done in way of writing to MPs and other tasks that DR is not doubt dreaming up now!

You bet!!!

The guys there yesterday spoke with our legal team who were well impressed with our efforts. There is stuff we can do like lobbying the human rights committee, badgering MPs etc. which neither Montp or our legals can get involved in.

We have already provided them some useful info obtained through FOI, and there are many more FOI requests in the pipeline. HMRC/Treasury will resist but the 100+ testimonies make a powerful public interest case in favour of disclosure.

We have now got 9 months or so to prise anything we can from the buggers. Although yesterday takes the pressure off us, I think we should keep up the pressure on them.

You never know, at some point they may get so sick of us that we may not even need a JR.