BN66 - Time to fight back (Chapter 3)

[Fog]

Great step forward

This is a really significant step - and combined with the JCHR - has certainly moved things into our favour. Very chuffed - and relieved actually.

Thanks for attending everyone - it is great to hear this news - let the sun keep shining
Fog

[ContractIn]

Fantastic News

I have been offsite in a workshop all day today with no online access, I was not very productive. Only got home a while ago and and PC seemed to take an eternity to boot before the multiple browsers popped up!

And what a delight it was to see the great news. I am going to take this day as a victory and prepare for the next battle ahead.

Thanks to everyone who attended today it is extremely appreciated.

I'm not too concerned about the judges initial comments, the scheme and how it worked within the law will be shown in court.

Anyway, off for a bevvy!

[NO TO RETRO]

I have been offsite in a workshop all day today with no online access, I was not very productive. Only got home a while ago and and PC seemed to take an eternity to boot before the multiple browsers popped up!

And what a delight it was to see the great news. I am going to take this day as a victory and prepare for the next battle ahead.

Thanks to everyone who attended today it is extremely appreciated.

I'm not too concerned about the judges initial comments, the scheme and how it worked within the law will be shown in court.

Anyway, off for a bevvy!

Does anyone know if this result provides any pointers to how the JR will go? I'm looking on the bright side and thinking this was almost a mini JR. The Judge looked at the facts and decided there was definitely a case for HMRC to answer. If he didn't he would have refused it. Or will the JR be a different proposition altogether? Also, anyone any idea when it might be heard?

[Earlyflash]

Does anyone know if this result provides any pointers to how the JR will go? I'm looking on the bright side and thinking this was almost a mini JR. The Judge looked at the facts and decided there was definitely a case for HMRC to answer. If he didn't he would have refused it. Or will the JR be a different proposition altogether? Also, anyone any idea when it might be heard?

That's not really what the Judge had to decide. He had to decide if it was 'arguable' that there would be a incompatibility between the Primary legislation (s58 of the finance act) and the Human Rights law.

He decided that it was arguable. Now they all have to get together and decide what the outcome is of that argument.

It's an important first step, but by no means a mini-JR. However, what is interesting is that you get a skeleton view of what the opposing arguments are likely to be in the real JR.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

However, what is interesting is that you get a skeleton view of what the opposing arguments are likely to be in the real JR.

It didn't sound like there were many bones in HMRC's skeleton.

[OnYourBikeGB]

You are right, HMRC could always try and challenge the scheme based on the old law. Any they will probably do this just to be bloody minded, even though they'd know they would lose.

Their objective I'm sure is to string this out as long as possible to maximise the FUD. They know the fear & uncertainty is causing stress and it's probably scaring others off from using these types of schemes.

I agree with DR. I think this whole thing is very odd. They used the same defence that they scraped through with a few weeks ago, except this time it was even weaker? I think this is a bigger game, like DR says. They don't give a damn about you and me or the devastation that it causes to families. Their job is to keep the money rolling into the treasury. They haven't lost a thing by this rolling on. I think they already know they are unlikely to ever see a penny of our money, but they're sending a message to other scheme makers that they will make their customers lives misery. In the end, they're going to win overall, even if we carry the day. I don't think for a second they're thick. For a crap defence like that, they're costing MP et al some serious money, both in legal costs and in lost potential customers. I think they're having maximum effect for minimum cost.

I would like to know how we can force them to show their motivation for bringing this, is there a legal route we can use when they block the FOI requests so easily? I hope the JCHR can demand to see the documents. I think they are playing games with us, they don't give a damn about how they destroy families. After all, they do it every day of the week. And there is nothing we can do except fight our cause and stop them destroying us. But they will be able to do it again to someone else. If on the other hand they are playing games with the law to achieve this, then heads should roll and these sort of tactics could be stopped.

It has been a great day for us. It was a great relief. Hopefully there's plenty more to come. I'm off to the nearby ATM to draw out some of the ringfenced money, and I'm going to pour it down my throat. And when its worked its way through and leaving me, I'll still be thinking of Mr B and friends . I might even get some up-market crisps! Cheers everyone, and thanks as always to those who have led and those that have attended. Thank the Supreme Being(s) (how PC is that?) for this forum.

[Earlyflash]

It didn't sound like there were many bones in HMRC's skeleton.

Ho ho..

I don't know if it's seen as 'bad form' to bring up new items in the real JR that weren't mentioned before. I assume that it would be allowed, but doesn't sit well with the judges.

[ASB]

Ho ho..

I don't know if it's seen as 'bad form' to bring up new items in the real JR that weren't mentioned before. I assume that it would be allowed, but doesn't sit well with the judges.

As far as I am aware you simply can't do it. Case disclosure I am sure has to be made by both parties,and you can't simply stand up in court and say "here is the killer blow". Of course ICBW

[TaxDude]

A battle win

Thanks to DR, MP and all the guys/gals attending and keeping us updated. Somehow can't bring myself to be happy yet - will wait for the final outcome but step in the right direction.
Will they still send CNs you think - I never did receive any?

[Gonzo]

Maybe they thought I was among you lot.

Very well done to all who attended and great reporting.

Were you "advised" not to attend?