Can you claim PCG sub as IR35 expense?

[expat]

General guidance is that it is a legitimate company expense, the argument being that you wouldn't need the membership if it weren't for the company, hence there is no personal benefit, hence no BIK can accrue. So the company can pay for it.

Did I hear that right? I am currently working in NL through a Dutch payroll company: are you saying that there is NO benefit to me in being a PCG member? What about e.g. health insurance discount? Not to mention jury duty insurance. And indeed the fora....

Anyway, I was advised credibly by my accountant that it is a dubious expense because not only is it not on the list of recognised professional memberships, it is in my name and not my Ltd Co's name (PCG even gave me a membership card in my name making no mention of the Ltd Co; my accountant said a harsh word or 2 about the advisability of that if they expect the expense to be claimed.

(I mean to say BOTH of those points: were it on the approved list it could be in my name; were it in theCo's name it needn't be on the list).

[malvolio]

It's of no benefit to you if you weren't an independent freelance contractor. Membership is personal since IR35 is a personal tax (officially, it's just paid by the company that has no other purpose, according to HMRC). That whole debate is also ongoing and has been for a while (guess what - the relevant law is ambiguous...)

The registered list thing is what we're arguing about with HMRC - they can't have it both ways, and we're not about to give them all our members' details just yet.

[ittony]

Did I hear that right? I am currently working in NL through a Dutch payroll company: are you saying that there is NO benefit to me in being a PCG member? What about e.g. health insurance discount? Not to mention jury duty insurance.

What benefit would jury duty insurance be to you as an employee?

Anyway, I was advised credibly by my accountant that it is a dubious expense because not only is it not on the list of recognised professional memberships, it is in my name and not my Ltd Co's name (PCG even gave me a membership card in my name making no mention of the Ltd Co;

My company debit card is in my name and makes no mention of the company. What does that prove?

Given the utter feebleness of the pro-benefit-in-kind arguments coming out, I'm increasingly minded to treat it as a business expense.

[malvolio]

Why not. I do. It's never been challenged

[THEPUMA]

Why not. I do. It's never been challenged

I'm sure you don't need me to point out the flaw in that logic!

You can claim corporate tax relief on it, but it is a benefit-in-kind. This is because it is not on the list of acceptable subscriptions issued by HMRC (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/list3/list3.pdf).

From recollection, I'm pretty sure a Paymaster General (past or present I can't remember) said that over their dead body would the subscription ever make it onto this list.

[expat]

What benefit would jury duty insurance be to you as an employee?

Pay me while I served on the jury. My employer/payroll company will not.

[kali]

No - it's not a subscription to a professional body.
So I always categorise it as "Legal Fees" and my accountant is happy. I'm sure categorising as "Insurance" would work too.

Oooh... The last two years I've always put it down just as "PCG Membership", my accountant has never challenged it. I think maybe I'll be a bit more vague in future

[malvolio]

OK, I got bored enough to read the PCG's extensive history on this subject. To summarise...

It is an allowable business expense. There YourCo can pay it for you.

There is no assoicated BIK

However, you cannot offset it against CT because of the "not a registered body" rule.

Nuff said?

[ittony]

OK, I got bored enough to read the PCG's extensive history on this subject. To summarise...

It is an allowable business expense. There YourCo can pay it for you.

There is no assoicated BIK

However, you cannot offset it against CT because of the "not a registered body" rule.

Nuff said?

Thanks Malvolio. Don't suppose you have any IDs for the relevant forum threads to save me from a nervous breakdown trying to find them through their appallingly bad search engine.

So, just to clarify, having already paid my subs from the company account, I don't need to mention this on my P11D, I just have to make sure it's not deducted from my company's profits when calculating corporation tax?

[THEPUMA]

OK, I got bored enough to read the PCG's extensive history on this subject. To summarise...

It is an allowable business expense. There YourCo can pay it for you.

There is no assoicated BIK

However, you cannot offset it against CT because of the "not a registered body" rule.

Nuff said?

I think you have misinterpreted, unless I am being thick. List 3 relates to deductibility for income tax purposes not corporation tax purposes.

There is no quid pro quo as far as I am aware that if it is not allowed for CT purposes, that that means there is no BIK. Indeed if you were investigated for income tax purposes, you would not be able to amend your out-of-time CT returns so there would be a double whammy.

If you disagree, please let me know where you've seen anything that contradicts this.