BN66 - Time to fight back!!!

[normalbloke]

I'm guessing the vast majority of the members don't yet realise the outcome of the recent BN66 bill going through - when they do and the demands hit the letterboxes in July (?) the sh*t will hit the fan - maybe Montpellier want the bad news to come from HMRC ?

MP did write to ALL current and former members of the scheme in March, outlining their views and plans.

"If it is enacted in in current form, then we will challenge the validity bothin terms of its applicability to the existing arrangements and its conformity with the Human Rights Act".

Well, it hasn't actually been enacted yet - Royal Assent enacts it. Therefore they could defend their inactivity. However, if they are planning to seek a JR (and we only have word of mouth on this at the moment) then I would expect them to inform everyone after Royal Assent, when they then can see the Bill fully in all its legal glory. And also to inform people how to respond to the HMRC demands within the 30 day period.

The Legal process is long and tortuous unfortunately and that is no help to those of us wanting a quick outcome one way or the other. We must remember this is an unprecented attack - I suspect MP have never dealt with retrospective legislation before...who has??. Most schemes get their day in court in a year or two. This is vastly different.

Of all the people I know that have contacted MP (including myself) they have had their questions answered. Maybe a further update after the Committe stage may have been appropriate.

Now is not the time to panic, despite the size of the liabilities some of us owe. As other posters have advised.... start planning for the worst. Buy your CTD's etc, get advice on meeting/deferring/managing huge potential demands from HMRC so IF the s hits the f, then you know your options.

[Lewis]

Just curious ... sorry if I have missed this being asked before but are those of you who have got demands from HMRC being asked to pay penalties?

[BrilloPad]

Montp might be hoping they can resolve this before the assessments go out to stop any SH*T hitting any fans, maybe....?? Then nobody (apart from us lot) is none the wiser...

Nope thats not it at all. MTM want the demands to be issued so that the appeals process can start... first to commissioners and then before the real courts. HMRC confirmed 4 cased to bring before commissioners in May 2007 and then decided they wouldn't win. They introduced BN66 to avoid them going down the court route.

[smalldog]

Nope thats not it at all. MTM want the demands to be issued so that the appeals process can start... first to commissioners and then before the real courts. HMRC confirmed 4 cased to bring before commissioners in May 2007 and then decided they wouldn't win. They introduced BN66 to avoid them going down the court route.

that sounds very much like a judicial review will scupper HMRC's attempts to keep it out of the courts. If HMRC are so scared of losing if it went to court then surely a judicial review will ultimately yield the same results, in which case job done, HMRC will lose...or am I missing something...?

[BrilloPad]

Why do you continue to defend the indefensible? Do you have some allegiance to Montp?

I have no allegiance to montp. I use the scheme - and have been since April 2006.

I dont agree on the montp communication strategy. But I have not tried being in their shoes. I never agreed with the f4j communication strategy - but I found out the hard way it is best!

I have an allegiance to seeing that we win. Fighting amongst ourselves is not going to help us.

IMO this is now a waiting game.

maddog/smalldog - if you want to PM/email me I will try to make sure montp provide a reply.

[BrilloPad]

MP did write to ALL current and former members of the scheme in March, outlining their views and plans.

"If it is enacted in in current form, then we will challenge the validity bothin terms of its applicability to the existing arrangements and its conformity with the Human Rights Act".

Well, it hasn't actually been enacted yet - Royal Assent enacts it. Therefore they could defend their inactivity. However, if they are planning to seek a JR (and we only have word of mouth on this at the moment) then I would expect them to inform everyone after Royal Assent, when they then can see the Bill fully in all its legal glory. And also to inform people how to respond to the HMRC demands within the 30 day period.

The Legal process is long and tortuous unfortunately and that is no help to those of us wanting a quick outcome one way or the other. We must remember this is an unprecented attack - I suspect MP have never dealt with retrospective legislation before...who has??. Most schemes get their day in court in a year or two. This is vastly different.

Of all the people I know that have contacted MP (including myself) they have had their questions answered. Maybe a further update after the Committe stage may have been appropriate.

Now is not the time to panic, despite the size of the liabilities some of us owe. As other posters have advised.... start planning for the worst. Buy your CTD's etc, get advice on meeting/deferring/managing huge potential demands from HMRC so IF the s hits the f, then you know your options.

WHS

[TheGadgetMan]

MP did write to ALL current and former members of the scheme in March, outlining their views and plans.

"If it is enacted in in current form, then we will challenge the validity bothin terms of its applicability to the existing arrangements and its conformity with the Human Rights Act".

Well, it hasn't actually been enacted yet - Royal Assent enacts it. Therefore they could defend their inactivity. However, if they are planning to seek a JR (and we only have word of mouth on this at the moment) then I would expect them to inform everyone after Royal Assent, when they then can see the Bill fully in all its legal glory. And also to inform people how to respond to the HMRC demands within the 30 day period.

The Legal process is long and tortuous unfortunately and that is no help to those of us wanting a quick outcome one way or the other. We must remember this is an unprecented attack - I suspect MP have never dealt with retrospective legislation before...who has??. Most schemes get their day in court in a year or two. This is vastly different.

Of all the people I know that have contacted MP (including myself) they have had their questions answered. Maybe a further update after the Committe stage may have been appropriate.

Now is not the time to panic, despite the size of the liabilities some of us owe. As other posters have advised.... start planning for the worst. Buy your CTD's etc, get advice on meeting/deferring/managing huge potential demands from HMRC so IF the s hits the f, then you know your options.

yes i would totally agree with this...normalbloke is offering a lot of sound advice here...having said that, I do believe that MTM could have put some communication out in the past few weeks, even if just to put some minds at rest that they were doing something...

so based on the past few posts in this forum, I have contacted MTM today and Bo'Ks office and told them exactly that...put something out to the members so we know that a plan of action is being put into place....he will be getting back to me next week...

there is another issue here as well...currently MTM are putting the Partnership Accounts together to be lodged with hector by the end of july...I am expecting Hector to be using these accounts to calculate the tax demands that we will be receiving shortly after...

my point is that, given these accounts are going to have a direct impact on me, will I have sight of these accounts BEFORE they go to hector?...I had some draft accounts raised on my first year in the scheme a few years ago and they were totally wrong...they bore no resemblance to the monies that I received...therefore, before they send them to hector and i get hit for a large sum of money, i would expect to see them first...

anyone else have a view on this...?

[smalldog]

yes i would totally agree with this...normalbloke is offering a lot of sound advice here...having said that, I do believe that MTM could have put some communication out in the past few weeks, even if just to put some minds at rest that they were doing something...

so based on the past few posts in this forum, I have contacted MTM today and Bo'Ks office and told them exactly that...put something out to the members so we know that a plan of action is being put into place....he will be getting back to me next week...

there is another issue here as well...currently MTM are putting the Partnership Accounts together to be lodged with hector by the end of july...I am expecting Hector to be using these accounts to calculate the tax demands that we will be receiving shortly after...

my point is that, given these accounts are going to have a direct impact on me, will I have sight of these accounts BEFORE they go to hector?...I had some draft accounts raised on my first year in the scheme a few years ago and they were totally wrong...they bore no resemblance to the monies that I received...therefore, before they send them to hector and i get hit for a large sum of money, i would expect to see them first...

anyone else have a view on this...?

totally agree, as per the tax returns they get us to check over first we should be given the opportunity to QA what they are submitting on our behalf to Hector. Its even more important now as the thousands wrong here or there all count!!!

[arandomname]

Hi All,

long time lurker here, thanks for all the work you've all put into helping others understand all of this - I'm another ex scheme member (left 2003). The two main threads have been a big help though I must admit I haven't waded through every page of this one!

I had a question, or a thought, or point or sumfink! .

I've been getting demands to enter self assessment statements for a few years now. I went permie a while back so they're a doddle to fill out. I did notice on the (online) forms a reference to the reason why I was expected to fill out the assessment each year, namely that HMRC considered I owed back taxes. Yet this week I got a letter saying I'm not expected to have to fill them out anymore (unless circumstances change). Seems a bit strange if the reason they gave previously was related to tax "owed" from my contractor days. Nothing's changed on that score. Anyone else have experience of this?

Also, I keep reading people mention CTD's but can't find an explanation, google is no help (amazing how many things are called ctd's) and the forum search returned nothing (despite 'ctd' being in various places, how does that happen then?) Is there a quick reference for these things?

Cheers.

[poppy01]

Hi All,

long time lurker here, thanks for all the work you've all put into helping others understand all of this - I'm another ex scheme member (left 2003). The two main threads have been a big help though I must admit I haven't waded through every page of this one!

I had a question, or a thought, or point or sumfink! .

I've been getting demands to enter self assessment statements for a few years now. I went permie a while back so they're a doddle to fill out. I did notice on the (online) forms a reference to the reason why I was expected to fill out the assessment each year, namely that HMRC considered I owed back taxes. Yet this week I got a letter saying I'm not expected to have to fill them out anymore (unless circumstances change). Seems a bit strange if the reason they gave previously was related to tax "owed" from my contractor days. Nothing's changed on that score. Anyone else have experience of this?

Also, I keep reading people mention CTD's but can't find an explanation, google is no help (amazing how many things are called ctd's) and the forum search returned nothing (despite 'ctd' being in various places, how does that happen then?) Is there a quick reference for these things?

Cheers.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/howtopay/cert_tax_deposit.htm

there you go, pity i cant afford one