Terms Not Mirrored - Muppets

[Emily]

At the end of the day they are supposed to be professionals. This does not make them look like professionals!! Finally, it can't be just a client cock up if the agency signed the contract.....

I can only speak from experience but generally the client gets sent a 'client schedule' confirming the contract dates, so if that happened then the client are as much to blame.

I agree in general terms that a lot of agencies are not as professional as they should be. There are many who don't screen candidates properly if at all, who don't seem to undertand the importance of sending contractors contracts and who see IR35 as some mysterious concept which they don't need to worry about.

I do understand the frustrations contractors feel, but in some cases it isn't justified. I'm just not convinced on this one but that's only because we don't have the complete picture.

[TheFaQQer]

I do understand the frustrations contractors feel, but in some cases it isn't justified. I'm just not convinced on this one but that's only because we don't have the complete picture.

I can understand SP's frustration here completely.

Having come to the end of the contract, he is now getting grief from the client about not fulfilling the contract! So, do you risk annoying the client by going (when you are meant to leave), or stick to the contract? This is particularly important when there is another contract on the table elsewhere that may not be willing to wait for the contractor.

The problem is that the agency and / or the client messed up. However, rather than realizing where the problem lies, the client has immediately focussed on the contractor.

[Emily]

I can understand SP's frustration here completely.

Having come to the end of the contract, he is now getting grief from the client about not fulfilling the contract! So, do you risk annoying the client by going (when you are meant to leave), or stick to the contract? This is particularly important when there is another contract on the table elsewhere that may not be willing to wait for the contractor.

The problem is that the agency and / or the client messed up. However, rather than realizing where the problem lies, the client has immediately focussed on the contractor.

Indeed, I understand SP's frustration, I was referring generally to the 'blame the agency' mentality when it's sometimes misplaced. Sorry for not making that clear, I do totally understand what an issue it has caused SP. It sucks.

If he leaves on the Agency end date then it will be the Agency who gets it in the neck from the client, he just needs to make sure the client understand that he is in no way breaching his contract. If its handled professionally by SP then there should be no issue and he has another contract lined up already so he's in a position of strength.

[Sockpuppet]

I can understand SP's frustration here completely.

Having come to the end of the contract, he is now getting grief from the client about not fulfilling the contract! So, do you risk annoying the client by going (when you are meant to leave), or stick to the contract? This is particularly important when there is another contract on the table elsewhere that may not be willing to wait for the contractor.

The problem is that the agency and / or the client messed up. However, rather than realizing where the problem lies, the client has immediately focussed on the contractor.

Exactly. I've worked for this Client before. I did a contract for them (my first one) that lasted 3 months left for another contract and came back to this one again.

I will more than likley end up working for them in the future so the last thing I want to do is cheese them off.

End of the day the agency who I e-mailed 3 weeks ago (so they knew contract was ending) and asked for a rate rise didn't communicate the contract to the client.

So the client thinks I am giving notice when I am infact just not renewing the contract.

[TheFaQQer]

So the client thinks I am giving notice when I am infact just not renewing the contract.

And the danger is that once you've gone, the agency puts all the blame on you when you have no chance to put the truth across.

[Emily]

End of the day the agency who I e-mailed 3 weeks ago (so they knew contract was ending) and asked for a rate rise didn't communicate the contract to the client.

So the client thinks I am giving notice when I am infact just not renewing the contract.

What I was saying was that the agency and client must have a contract together and in most cases a schedule of contract dates is sent from the agency to the client. My argument is that if this was the case then it's not necessarily the agents fault.
If you are saying that the agency just made up an end date and didn't tell the client then obviously the agency should be blamed. What it sounds like happened is that the client said we want Sockpuppet to work until April but neither agency nor client agreed on an end date so the agency just made an approximate end date based on the view that they could extend if necessary. Presumption is the mother of all f**k ups as they say.

If you've worked with the client before surely you can speak to them about this, I presume you've made them aware of the situation?

[TheFaQQer]

What I was saying was that the agency and client must have a contract together and in most cases a schedule of contract dates is sent from the agency to the client. My argument is that if this was the case then it's not necessarily the agents fault.
If you are saying that the agency just made up an end date and didn't tell the client then obviously the agency should be blamed. What it sounds like happened is that the client said we want Sockpuppet to work until April but neither agency nor client agreed on an end date so the agency just made an approximate end date based on the view that they could extend if necessary. Presumption is the mother of all f**k ups as they say.

If you've worked with the client before surely you can speak to them about this, I presume you've made them aware of the situation?

The first post says that the contract between the client and agency does not have an end date, it's a continuous contract. That's somewhat different from putting the wrong date on there - it's a completely different employment situation.

And yes, I deliberately used the word "employment" here because that's potentially how HMRC could view it. Someone's almighty cock-up here could well have IR35 implications on our trucking young friend here.

[Emily]

The first post says that the contract between the client and agency does not have an end date, it's a continuous contract. That's somewhat different from putting the wrong date on there - it's a completely different employment situation.

And yes, I deliberately used the word "employment" here because that's potentially how HMRC could view it. Someone's almighty cock-up here could well have IR35 implications on our trucking young friend here.

Ok, I need clarification here. You are saying the IR35 implications are caused by the suggestion that the client had it as a continuous contract, is that right? With HMRC likely to take the view- 'if it's indefinite it's employment'. I get that. Doesn't putting a review date on the contract help this situation? I am genuinely asking, because this isn't clear to me.

[Turion]

This sounds like a great opportunity to me. Take the second contract, use substitution clause to parachute in a replacement for your current client. If that works, jettission the agent. You now have 2 contracts running. Do the same with your next contract, and sub in a replacement and start contract 3. If this works you have the start of a real business and can start tendering for complete projects.

Will take some doing, but is possible. I know a guy who did a similar thing in the '90s and is rolling in it. Looking for opportunities is far more profitable than negative blame game thinking.

[Emily]

[QUOTE=Turion;504021]This sounds like a great opportunity to me. Take the second contract, use substitution clause to parachute in a replacement for your current client. If that works, jettission the agent. You now have 2 contracts running. Do the same with your next contract, and sub in a replacement and start contract 3. If this works you have the start of a real business and can start tendering for complete projects.
QUOTE]

Think big. I like it!