Ha de ha ha - Tory policies

[mjshrimpton]

"Separately, Mark Prisk, the Tory minister for small business, wants self-employed people to tell him where the UK government should focus the £2.6bn it currently spends on small and medium-sized businesses. "



From the front page lead article.

If anyone on here believes that the tories will scrap IR35, if by some miracle they get into power, they are having a laugh. It was their idea in the first place, but they never implemented it, and then it got resurrected by GB.

Loads of people have simply rolled over or gone to umbrella companies, so it has done it's job, and the cases they lose are probably a drop in the ocean. This means that by dropping it they only have to find that revenue from somewhere else.

And secondly, could the person who reviews these articles explain how the Tories have a minister for small business? Shadow maybe......

[richard-af]

Loads of people have simply rolled over or gone to umbrella companies, so it has done it's job, and the cases they lose are probably a drop in the ocean. This means that by dropping it they only have to find that revenue from somewhere else.

I think you're wrong, there. HMRC have won feck all cases. The trick is to get yer contract reviewed properly and get Hector insurance.

[mjshrimpton]

I think you're wrong, there. HMRC have won feck all cases. The trick is to get yer contract reviewed properly and get Hector insurance.

The point I was making was a bit more subtle than that. Yes when people fight, Hector loses over 99% of the time, if those people have the correct professional support, and have taken the time to set themselves up correctly.

But loads and loads of people have rolled over from the outset, and either do full PAYE through their ltd, or moved to umbrella. So they have gained loads of tax there, mostly from people who would not be liable if they were savvy enough to sort out their contracts and business.

[Old Greg]

The point I was making was a bit more subtle than that. Yes when people fight, Hector loses over 99% of the time, if those people have the correct professional support, and have taken the time to set themselves up correctly.

But loads and loads of people have rolled over from the outset, and either do full PAYE through their ltd, or moved to umbrella. So they have gained loads of tax there, mostly from people who would not be liable if they were savvy enough to sort out their contracts and business.

Agree - I have lots of colleagues who 'don't want to take the risk' and stump up the full tax and NI.

[zathras]

If anyone on here believes that the tories will scrap IR35, if by some miracle they get into power, they are having a laugh. It was their idea in the first place, but they never implemented it

You should learn some history.

What became S134 was part of the Finance Act 1978.

In 1981 with the country in fairly dire straights the Tories had to increase taxes. The Treasury (as in the civil servents, not the Minister) attempted to increase the taxes on contractors. This remained in the plans for the Budget of 1981 until they looked into how it could be implemented and realising it was unworkable took it out. It was always the mandarins who wanted it.

The Tories have been fairly consistant in opposing IR35. With the possible exception of that twit Oliver Letwin. He made the mistake of suggesting in a room full of PCG members that maybe the government had a point and should contractors in place for 2 years or more be considered employees. He could not get out of the room fast enough. That said after a good chunk of lobbying the Tories adopted a abolish IR35 policy and that has been the policy ever since.

As for IR35. At the same time as the Tories were throwing out the mandarins attempts to increase the taxes for the Self-Employed they also were trying to get industry into Northern Ireland. Enter DeLorean and his gull winged car. DeLorean got a big chunk of Government money to set up manufacturing and the company was audited by (what was then) and IT and Accounting Consultancy called Andersons. Needless to say DeLorean went belly up taking a large chunk of Government money with it. Mrs Thatcher was livid and declared that Andersons were fired and banned from further Government contracts.

Andersons licked went away and licked their wounds but played the long game. Knowing that one day the political landscape would change and Labour get into power they then got very friendly with them. Right to the point that some Andersons managers became senior members of Labour (Patricia Hewitt for example), some in Labour joined Andersons.

Meanwhile in the US then IRS cooked up rule 1706. This is the US version of IR35 and is essentially the same. Check to see if you look like an employee, if so pay up. It is simpler than IR35 in so far as the check is about 20 questions but at it's core it is the same. When the US government introduced this the independent sector collapsed, clients were driven to use the big consultancies and the price of IT Services went through the roof. Eventually things settled down and like here the Contractors got around it or lived with it.

In 1997 (Now New) Labour won the election and tasked Andersons to advice it on tax policy. A couple of years later The Chancellor stood up and announced he would be dealing with companies such as ours and Inland Revenue Press Release 35 came out. Now nobody knows how this happened but for many it looks like Andersons tried to repeat the American experience here. Even to the point that the consultancies complained they could not compete - of course not, they are bloated, costly and inefficient having your most expensive resource a lot cheaper would sound very nice thankyou.

[TheFaQQer]

With the possible exception of that twit Oliver Letwin.

tw@

[richard-af]

The point I was making was a bit more subtle than that. Yes when people fight, Hector loses over 99% of the time, if those people have the correct professional support, and have taken the time to set themselves up correctly.

But loads and loads of people have rolled over from the outset, and either do full PAYE through their ltd, or moved to umbrella. So they have gained loads of tax there, mostly from people who would not be liable if they were savvy enough to sort out their contracts and business.

Point taken! Yes, I bet loads have been scared off. I nearly was, but this site re-inflated my balls!

[mjshrimpton]

You should learn some history.

Thanks for the lesson. Point taken, and understanding now clarified!

They are still as bad as the current bunch, and having grown up during their shambolic governing of this country, and having met several of them in social capacities, I dont believe a word they say and would never vote for them.

Simple as.

[Ardesco]

Hmm,

From my memories of growing up the tories did a good job of sorting out the economy that labour left then and it was ticking over nicely when Nu Liemore took over. Nu Liemore then followed the tory economic plans for the first year or so and bragged about how great a chancellor GB was and then raped pension funds, borrowed billions, continue to stick stupid stelth taxes on everything, create more red tape and lots of pointless jobs for the boys.

All the while taking credit for the good state the tories left the economy in and blaming them for everything they could (which is fairly normal).

IMHO the tories may not have better policies or much more integrety, but the one thing they can do very well is run the economy. Nu Liemore are tulipe at running the economy, and god forbid we get the Lib Dems in power....

[mjshrimpton]

IMHO the tories may not have better policies or much more integrety, but the one thing they can do very well is run the economy. Nu Liemore are tulipe at running the economy, and god forbid we get the Lib Dems in power....

I am not giving GB or Labour any respect - he has ridden the coat tails of a benign global situation, and is mendacious when it comes to taking personal advantage of the rules, as has been discussed ad nauseam.

But

Black Wednesday
Base Interest rates > 10%
> 3 million unemployed

None of these were anything other than the results of tory policy, and dont bring to mind a well run and stable economy to me.