"Basic" Packages from Accountants

[malvolio]

Yes, we do. No problem with that but I'm running a business (a small one, admittedly) and prefer to think like one. My point, though, is to highlight that simple money paid out is not the criterion you should apply, and as Alan said earlier, an accountant will only repeat all your good work at year end anyway, so why not let them do it all?

[philip@wellwoodhoyle]

Agree 100% with Alan from Nixon Williams.

We do offer an alternative to the "standard" monthly "we-do-everything" packages but usually the client pays around the same, maybe even more sometimes. Our monthly packages are worked out at a much lower charge-out rate to account for us being able to systemise and plan our workloads far more efficiently, so less waste and down-time, therefore lower charge out rates.

It sounds crazy, but it really often does take more time to assemble all the information and documents from clients, then try to work out what has been done and how figures have been arrived at for VAT returns, payroll etc., and then correct as necessary.

Not just for IT contractors, but for other business types as well, it is often more efficient to re-write the books ourselves rather than try to make sense of other peoples' attempts, especially when they try to use spreadsheets - anyone who has had to try to correct a spreadsheet with @sum equations that don't include the whole column, numbers entered as text which don't add into the totals, cross-referencing to a wrong figure, adding figures individually and forgetting to change the formula when a new entry is made, inserting new columns or rows and not correcting the formula, etc., will understand!

I hate it when a potential new client tells me they just want me to do the annual accounts and tax returns and that they'll be doing the book-keeping, VAT and payroll themselves - 90% of them will make a botch up of the basics and then complain about our fees being more than quoted when we have to sort out the mess or our time in having to answer dozens of basic questions about how to do the basics. That's why we prefer the "full package" - it takes more time, but that time is better controlled and more fruitful in advising the client, rather than spending time on sorting out problems after the event instead of tax and business planning.

[PAG]

Agree 100% with Alan from Nixon Williams.

We do offer an alternative to the "standard" monthly "we-do-everything" packages but usually the client pays around the same, maybe even more sometimes. Our monthly packages are worked out at a much lower charge-out rate to account for us being able to systemise and plan our workloads far more efficiently, so less waste and down-time, therefore lower charge out rates.

It sounds crazy, but it really often does take more time to assemble all the information and documents from clients, then try to work out what has been done and how figures have been arrived at for VAT returns, payroll etc., and then correct as necessary.

Not just for IT contractors, but for other business types as well, it is often more efficient to re-write the books ourselves rather than try to make sense of other peoples' attempts, especially when they try to use spreadsheets - anyone who has had to try to correct a spreadsheet with @sum equations that don't include the whole column, numbers entered as text which don't add into the totals, cross-referencing to a wrong figure, adding figures individually and forgetting to change the formula when a new entry is made, inserting new columns or rows and not correcting the formula, etc., will understand!

I hate it when a potential new client tells me they just want me to do the annual accounts and tax returns and that they'll be doing the book-keeping, VAT and payroll themselves - 90% of them will make a botch up of the basics and then complain about our fees being more than quoted when we have to sort out the mess or our time in having to answer dozens of basic questions about how to do the basics. That's why we prefer the "full package" - it takes more time, but that time is better controlled and more fruitful in advising the client, rather than spending time on sorting out problems after the event instead of tax and business planning.

Just an idea, maybe you should give spreadsheets (without formulas but with the structure you want) to your non-full-package clients to enter the data. And when they submit their work towards the end of the year, you can just copy the data (like for like - column for column and row for row) in you original spreadsheet (with formula). And you will get the correct figures youwant.

[philip@wellwoodhoyle]

Just an idea, maybe you should give spreadsheets (without formulas but with the structure you want) to your non-full-package clients to enter the data. And when they submit their work towards the end of the year, you can just copy the data (like for like - column for column and row for row) in you original spreadsheet (with formula). And you will get the correct figures youwant.

Yes, like all the other contractor-specialist accountants, we do offer our own basic spreadsheets free of charge (to anyone, not just clients), and we also offer access to a free online accounting ledger-based system which handles invoicing, VAT returns etc. There are payroll systems to buy for as little as £50 per year or maybe less on a "per payslip" basis on the internet. So in theory, a client can equip themselves with all the necessary systems for virtually no cost, and we do try to "steer" people in the right direction according to their own circumstances. Trouble is, a lot of people want to do it their own way - using their own (inadequate) database or spreadsheets, or surprisingly continuing to use hand-written cash books, and even using the right tools, people still enter figures wrongly, put things in the wrong place, etc. If someone has the time and inclination to do their own book-keeping properly and is willing to pay for advice on book-keeping, control accounts and reconciliations, and other relevant accountancy issues at the outset, then they can do, and will probably save accountancy fees in the long term, although probably pay more in the first year. The problem areas are where people think it is easy and do their own thing, not realising they need initial advice and training, and then the time and accountancy fees escalate to put things right afterwards.