Disguised employee, IR35 & fellow contractors

[JRCT]

Do any of you worry about the actions of fellow contractors regarding IR35 and disguised employment, etc?

I try as much as possible to separate myself from the BAU team. I work from home wherever possible, I don't attend company functions such as Christmas parties, I control my own workload and stick to what I'm contracted to do and I even mark my calendar as Out of Office, rather than Holiday when I have a day off. Anything I think I need to be wary of, whether small or large, I try to take the right course of action.

I have a fellow contractor who, essentially, has the same role as me but he's happy to dive in and do whatever he's asked to do. He is definitely part of the BAU team. He sits with them, he does any admin that's required, like updating ppt presentations for them which aren't in his remit and he goes to team meetings, staff nights out etc. They love him because he does whatever they want.

I've spoken to him about it and his attitude is that he's not bothered. He'll just do whatever needs to be done. The BAU team love that and they think he's great - and he is. He knows his stuff, he's a nice guy. I like him.

But it causes me two problems.

1. I'm the obstructive one who won't bend over backwards to do whatever I'm asked to do, like he does (I'm not too bothered by this one, but I know the BAU team think I'm not as helpful as I could be)

2. I'm wondering if this has any implications on me regarding a potential IR35 investigation. If I was the only contractor I wouldn't worry because I do everything the right way, at least as much as I know, to keep myself out of IR35. But if we were both investigated, I presume they couldn't possibly find one of us in and the other out, based on the stuff described above. I presume he would drag me in with him. I also presume that if the end client was asked what we do, their response would be to describe what he does.

I don't think there's anything I can do to influence his actions, but it does worry me. Right now, he's 'teacher's pet' and, quite understandably in some ways, he wants to continue to make everyone happy.

[supersteamer]

This is symptomatic of the blinkered definition of a "proper business" in IR35.

Does a proper business attempt to get repeat and extended business by keeping the client happy and by extending its scope into other aspects of work that the client has that it can provide services for?

Or does a proper business sit in the corner and say Na, I'm not helping you 'cos I want to pay less tax?

The client may have a very different view on this from HMRC.

[Danglekt]

I think it's about striking the right balance between client satisfaction, and remaining distinct. Everyone treads a different path, though I doubt the investigation would effect you - cos the client will fall over themselves to tell HMRC how much of a pain you were

[VectraMan]

It's a perfect example of how much easier life would be if you just accepted being inside IR35. You'd have a better time at work, everybody would like you more, and you'd have a much greater chance of repeat work. Your personal take home pay is of no concern to the client, all they see is you being an awkward bastard and not wanting to be part of the team.

[JRCT]

It's a perfect example of how much easier life would be if you just accepted being inside IR35. You'd have a better time at work, everybody would like you more, and you'd have a much greater chance of repeat work. Your personal take home pay is of no concern to the client, all they see is you being an awkward bastard and not wanting to be part of the team.

But I'm not inside IR35. However, the actions of someone else is putting them, potentially, inside and therefore by association, me.

It's like me bailing the water out of a life boat whilst someone else is drilling holes in it. Yes, I could accept my fate and drill holes in it too or I could try and do something to protect myself.

[MrMarkyMark]

FTFY

all they see is you being an awkward bastard, who does not want to be shafted, to feel part of the team.

everybody would like you more

To them, believe me, you will still be "one of the contractors", paying more tax won't change that

Anyway, as my missus and I always say, we don't care if someone is a total chunt, as long as they are good.

[LondonManc]

Do you do project work?

[BolshieBastard]

Do any of you worry about the actions of fellow contractors regarding IR35 and disguised employment, etc?

I try as much as possible to separate myself from the BAU team. I work from home wherever possible, I don't attend company functions such as Christmas parties, I control my own workload and stick to what I'm contracted to do and I even mark my calendar as Out of Office, rather than Holiday when I have a day off. Anything I think I need to be wary of, whether small or large, I try to take the right course of action.

I have a fellow contractor who, essentially, has the same role as me but he's happy to dive in and do whatever he's asked to do. He is definitely part of the BAU team. He sits with them, he does any admin that's required, like updating ppt presentations for them which aren't in his remit and he goes to team meetings, staff nights out etc. They love him because he does whatever they want.

I've spoken to him about it and his attitude is that he's not bothered. He'll just do whatever needs to be done. The BAU team love that and they think he's great - and he is. He knows his stuff, he's a nice guy. I like him.

But it causes me two problems.

1. I'm the obstructive one who won't bend over backwards to do whatever I'm asked to do, like he does (I'm not too bothered by this one, but I know the BAU team think I'm not as helpful as I could be)

2. I'm wondering if this has any implications on me regarding a potential IR35 investigation. If I was the only contractor I wouldn't worry because I do everything the right way, at least as much as I know, to keep myself out of IR35. But if we were both investigated, I presume they couldn't possibly find one of us in and the other out, based on the stuff described above. I presume he would drag me in with him. I also presume that if the end client was asked what we do, their response would be to describe what he does.

I don't think there's anything I can do to influence his actions, but it does worry me. Right now, he's 'teacher's pet' and, quite understandably in some ways, he wants to continue to make everyone happy.

I see it all the time, in every role Ive had since IR35 came into being. Contractors who act like a permie say they are contractors but act totally different.

Its only when hmrc come calling do they realise the error of their ways. Only then its too late because client sees them as just another employee

[northernladuk]

I see it all the time, in every role Ive had since IR35 came into being. Contractors who act like a permie say they are contractors but act totally different.

Its only when hmrc come calling do they realise the error of their ways. Only then its too late because client sees them as just another employee

This... But sadly HMRC doesn't come calling on these types often enough. Does that make me a bad person?

[jmo21]

You're right there is nothing you can do about the other contractor, or the client seeing you as unhelpful.

So it's all about your attitude to the risk of being investigated for IR35, and whether you would get stung.

If you really are so worried about it, you only have one option - quit.

But is that really the right thing to do?

You could of course declare inside for this one gig. But that seems silly too. So why not calculate the difference, and keep that aside just in case?