University trying to claim my IP

[DotasScandal]

OP is a student...

OP also wrote that "[he has] the money waiting to pay for the patent to be filed" (and I reckon he should proceed!)

[ipfiasco]

OP put a lot of stuff in that first post but omitted some of the most important things. Who is Person B and what has it got to do with them? Do they have any more knowledge of IP (and employment) law than you do? Ask person B for a copy of your employment contract. The fact that they might come up short there should give them a clue

Sounds to me if you do transfer the tech, you have a good case to demand a share of any profit; how much you think it is worth is entirely up to you to negotiate.

Of course your supervisor would be happy for you to patent your solution via his spin off, I wonder why?

If you are going to do it, do it yourself providing it is financially achievable. I'm with Cojak on this one.

Person B is essentially just another low level academic (a post-doc) with no formal understanding of IP/ tech transfer/ HR. He's a career builder who is known for puppeteering those with strings to pull.

Just to stress at no point has any contract/ paperwork ever been signed or exchanged by either myself and these guys or the university.

I have money waiting to go to have a patent formally reviewed/ filed but I do not have money to fight an employment tribunal as well.

In a discussion today the supervisor stated the reason why he believes they are entitled to the IP is that I would not of found it if I hadn't been involved with the project... he also stated that my future on the project will be in doubt if this can't be resolved (what a surprise).

[tractor]

...

Person B is essentially just another low level academic (a post-doc) with no formal understanding of IP/ tech transfer/ HR. He's a career builder who is known for puppeteering those with strings to pull.

Just to stress at no point has any contract/ paperwork ever been signed or exchanged by either myself and these guys or the university.

I have money waiting to go to have a patent formally reviewed/ filed but I do not have money to fight an employment tribunal as well.

In a discussion today the supervisor stated the reason why he believes they are entitled to the IP is that I would not of found it if I hadn't been involved with the project... he also stated that my future on the project will be in doubt if this can't be resolved (what a surprise).

Play hardball, tell them their future use of the solution may well be in doubt if they don't play ball.

You really do need to gen up on your position and your understanding of law. Employers do NOT take employees to employment tribunals.

1. Overview

You can make a claim to an employment tribunal if you think someone has treated you unlawfully, eg your employer, a potential employer or a trade union....

Unlawful treatment can include:
##unfair dismissal
##discrimination
##unfair deductions from your pay

Therefore, you do not need any money to fight any tribunal. There may be other actions that you may have to fight though. Which is why specialist legal advice is errrm advisable. The problem with this type of legal issue is that there are many IP lawyers who will persuade you that you have a good case. There will be an equal number who will persuade your Uni that they have a better case. Usually, all the lawyers win.

It is also why in consultancy/contractor/business relationships, a properly reviewed contract is always advisable. Experience can be expensive.

[SueEllen]

Person B is essentially just another low level academic (a post-doc) with no formal understanding of IP/ tech transfer/ HR. He's a career builder who is known for puppeteering those with strings to pull.

Just to stress at no point has any contract/ paperwork ever been signed or exchanged by either myself and these guys or the university.

I have money waiting to go to have a patent formally reviewed/ filed but I do not have money to fight an employment tribunal as well.

In a discussion today the supervisor stated the reason why he believes they are entitled to the IP is that I would not of found it if I hadn't been involved with the project... he also stated that my future on the project will be in doubt if this can't be resolved (what a surprise).

Be aware in England and Wales you can have an implied contracts and verbal contracts.

Legally an employer is suppose to give you a bit of paper with your main t&cs on them within a few weeks of you joining. However other bits of paperwork including emails that you get through the course of working for them can be argued to be part of your contract even if you don't sign anything. (Employers tend to make you sign things to protect them but not all do.)

There are also things that can be implied that aren't written down - which is dangerous for both parties.

If you aren't an employee they can state things verbally and this can form a contract. Again neither of you has to sign anything.

This is why any emails and bits of paper you have will help you.

[Fishface]

if it is 'written' IP 'of your hand' then you own copyright.

unless you assigned copyright to them

or you signed a contract that said 'work made of hire'

it's probably a 50+ year old paralegal trying to show they still are some value and the menopause didn't addle his/her brain.

tell'em to get knotted.

[jamesbrown]

Every university will have a detailed policy on IPR, including w/r to post-grad students; this is bread-and-butter for universities. This information should be available online and you should read it carefully. Collaborative work will involve a sharing of IPR and this is where you're likely to come unstuck, if at all. The question over what constitutes collaborative work, i.e. the extent to which other academics have contributed to your solution, may be argued. However, in my experience, where there is a potential question over shared IPR, it is standard practice to resolve this at the outset of a project, so these arguments do not arise later on. If this hasn't been done properly, you're likely to be in a strong position. Really, you need to elevate this beyond your immediate supervisor. You should have a Director of Postgraduate Research or a Director of the Graduate School (for example). It isn't good practice for a supervisor to be strong-arming a PhD student, and it sounds as though you're not being dealt with entirely honestly.

[eek]

Person B is essentially just another low level academic (a post-doc) with no formal understanding of IP/ tech transfer/ HR. He's a career builder who is known for puppeteering those with strings to pull.

Just to stress at no point has any contract/ paperwork ever been signed or exchanged by either myself and these guys or the university.

I have money waiting to go to have a patent formally reviewed/ filed but I do not have money to fight an employment tribunal as well.

In a discussion today the supervisor stated the reason why he believes they are entitled to the IP is that I would not of found it if I hadn't been involved with the project... he also stated that my future on the project will be in doubt if this can't be resolved (what a surprise).

You don't need to. The only things you need to do:-

1) Set in progress the patent application... As a minimum get everything put it in a sealed envelope and post it special delivery to someone who won't open it....
2) Bypass the clowns and find out who is in charge of the universities tech transfer department and speak to them directly.... You need someone on your side when it comes to commercialising the invention and it may as well be the university. However you want them beholden to you rather than the clowns in that department.

Yes there will be complaints but if its really worth any money that department will protect you from the clowns....

Oh and what jamesbrown says...

[DotasScandal]

In a discussion today the supervisor stated the reason why he believes they are entitled to the IP is that I would not of found it if I hadn't been involved with the project...

...and the supervisor seems like a Championship-level BS'er. If you aunt had a pair of bollocks, she would have been your uncle. It's a nonsense argument and would probably be treated as such by a tribunal.

he also stated that my future on the project will be in doubt if this can't be resolved (what a surprise).

...and that one is just plain good old intimidation.

Some good advice was given on this thread. In a nuthsell: stand your ground!
There is a good chance that if they see that you are not willing to bend over easily, they'll change their tactics (probably to another form of BS, so stay on your guard...).

It's very very common for students / young professionals to get screwed over with the other party playing on nothing else that fear and ignorance of how things work.
From what you wrote, their is no way on earth you can qualifty as employee.

Tread carefully, but stay firm and get professional advice if you can. When they see you are being advised and not buying their BS, I am sure your seniors will become more reasonable.