Budget 2015: Chancellor announcement on Employment Intermediaries: Temporary workers

[centurian]

This doesn't apply to Ltd companies so if you are worried then just use a Ltd?

I am afraid it does - read the actual budget document

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Accessible.pdf

restrict travel and subsistence relief for workers engaged through an employment
intermediary, such as an umbrella company or a personal service company, and under
the supervision, direction and control of the end-user.

[GlenW]

Right IPSE, fees paid... now's your time to shine

Don't hold your breath, it'll take them a year to decide what they are going to call the thing they are going to do and ages after that to decide how to do it.

[Unix]

I am afraid it does - read the actual budget document

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Accessible.pdf

Not sure what a personal service company is, but I am certainly not one, is that a company that supplies call girls?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I'm reading it as being any PSC caught by IR35 will be affected (as the criteria is broadly similar), which probably includes public sector gigs.

The thing is - it kind of makes sense - after all, if you have been determined as being a disguised employee for tax purposes - insisting it is still a "temporary workplace" for expense purposes is a bit of a stretch.

If so, it also ups-the-ante on the cost of losing an IR35 case - it won't just been NI payments due, but also all travel and subsistence as well.

We will have to wait and see what the proposals are, but I suspect it won't be far off what I have listed above

I think you're probably right but I do wonder how it will be policed, who will decide whether a worker is under SDC of client and where the penalty will fall if that call is later determined by HMRC to be wrong - I suppose this will all be hashed out during the consultation

[RoastedSlopes]

I'm reading it as being any PSC caught by IR35 will be affected (as the criteria is broadly similar), which probably includes public sector gigs.

The thing is - it kind of makes sense - after all, if you have been determined as being a disguised employee for tax purposes - insisting it is still a "temporary workplace" for expense purposes is a bit of a stretch.

If so, it also ups-the-ante on the cost of losing an IR35 case - it won't just been NI payments due, but also all travel and subsistence as well.

We will have to wait and see what the proposals are, but I suspect it won't be far off what I have listed above

Contract and Working practices review by QDOS gave me a pass (My working practices was deemed low) so I wouldn't assume public sector=inside IR35

[meridian]

Not sure what a personal service company is, but I am certainly not one, is that a company that supplies call girls?

Given that PSCs are not defined in legislation, this is the first post where I'm inclined to agree with you...

[SunnyInHades]

Scrum would likely put you further outside D&C

Week1 - no D&C
Scrum master: What u done/doing ?
Perm: coding
Contractor: coding
Client sales sitting in: <quiet>

Week2 - "Broadly" ?
Scrum master: What u done/doing ?
Perm: coding
Contractor: coding
Client sales sitting in: Lets see it. Good, works perfectly. Problem is the background is green. Following last week's email from the
MD it must be blue. Anything other than blue is unacceptable. We need it with a blue background for a presentation next week.

[psychocandy]

Another half arsed idea which is going to be a shambles again.

As I see it though, you can be in one of three camps now (instead of two previously:-

1. Outside IR35 and not under significant control so OK to claim expenses.
2. Outside IR35 (for other reasons) but under control so cant claim expenses.
3. Inside IR35 and now can't claim expenses.

Issues are going to be, as with IR35, defining the parameters etc. Very poorly thought out again.

Makes being inside IR35 and/or going via umbrella an even worse option.

What I can see happening is the same as IR35 and HMRCS stupid business tests. No-one really knows whats going on, theres lots of confusion and it all dies off.

[centurian]

Not sure what a personal service company is, but I am certainly not one, is that a company that supplies call girls?

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

Back in the real world, it should be pretty clear that the reference to PSCs in the official budget notes is a reference to LtdCo contractors.

Whether this makes it to the final recommendation remains to be seen. But if it is implemented as set out, then on balance of probabilities, LtdCo's are more likely to be affected by this, than not.

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

This doesn't apply to Ltd companies so if you are worried then just use a Ltd?

From the letter I quoted:

You may be aware, the Chancellor announced today as part of the Budget 2015; that the government will now consult on detailed proposals to restrict tax relief for travel and subsistence for workers engaged through an employment intermediary, such as an umbrella company or a personal service company, where that worker is under the supervision, direction and control of a third party.

Clearly as a PSC has no definition at law, it's going to be a purposeful interpretation on all limited companies.