Budget 2015: Chancellor announcement on Employment Intermediaries: Temporary workers

[Contreras]

But my contract is with the agent not the client so it doesn't apply.

Right, and neither does IR35. Dream on.

[SueEllen]

Right, and neither does IR35. Dream on.

The laws are written differently which is why one applies and the other doesn't.

[Contreras]

The laws are written differently which is why one applies and the other doesn't.

Sorry, what I meant is that the service company question applies equally whether the contract is direct or via an agency. Anyone that believes the question only applies to direct contracts is probably fooling themselves wrt. IR35 as well.

[Unix]

Sorry, what I meant is that the service company question applies equally whether the contract is direct or via an agency. Anyone that believes the question only applies to direct contracts is probably fooling themselves wrt. IR35 as well.

Well that's how HMRC define it, is it so unreasonable that we use their own definition to deem if we are a PSC or not?

[MicrosoftBob]

It is nice to see that any new rules will apply across the board - unless you work for the Government obviously:

"Travel expenses of members of local authorities etc.
Provides for an income tax exemption for qualifying payments made by a relevant
authority in respect of travel expenses incurred by a member of the authority. The
exemption will apply to a qualifying journey between a member’s home and
permanent workplace where the home is in the area of the authority or no more than
20 miles outside the boundary of the area. This change will have effect from 6 April 2015"

So will that mean if you are IR35 caught and work for a local authority, you are for tax purposes an employee of the local authority and thus able to claim expenses

[BolshieBastard]

Right IPSE, fees paid... now's your time to shine

What, like they said they'd convinced the tories to ditch IR35? Good luck with that one.

This doesn't apply to Ltd companies so if you are worried then just use a Ltd?

Oh dear.

Not sure what a personal service company is, but I am certainly not one, is that a company that supplies call girls?

Oh deary me.

But my contract is with the agent not the client so it doesn't apply.

Oh deary deary me!

Still, havent had such a good guffaw in a long time.

As usual, Government \ HMRC uses a blunt instrument to resolve an issue for agency workers that they can use nicely to clobber contractors.

Just how all this sits with their aims of having a 'mobile, flexible workforce' that is pounds out of pocket going to and from that 'flexible' work, goodness only knows.

Hopefully, I can top up the pension pot again and return to retirement before this punnative change comes in and makes working more than 10 - 15 miles from home not worthwhile.

[psychocandy]

Would agree its about time IPSE got involved in things like this.

[Zero Liability]

This mirrors strongly the original IR35 commentary in 1998; after a period of playing with other wording HMRC came to the view that the existing employment status tests were the practical way to proceed; it had been obvious from the outset that using these was how it would end up.

I very much suspect the same will happen here. If disguised employee then no subsistence and travel expenses. SDC in itself is too narrow a test to work with.

In practice I suspect this will boil down to IR35 caught, no expenses. Outside IR35 existing rules still apply.

What could possibly go wrong...

Makes you wonder if they'd try to apply this retrospectively rather than from when these changes come into force onwards.

[MrWebDev]

Week1 - no D&C
Scrum master: What u done/doing ?
Perm: coding
Contractor: coding
Client sales sitting in: <quiet>

Week2 - "Broadly" ?
Scrum master: What u done/doing ?
Perm: coding
Contractor: coding
Client sales sitting in: Lets see it. Good, works perfectly. Problem is the background is green. Following last week's email from the
MD it must be blue. Anything other than blue is unacceptable. We need it with a blue background for a presentation next week.

SIH I've always thought this too. I've never been sure which way to look at it. Is it direction and/or control? Or is working with the client to produce an outcome outlined in the 'deliverables' i.e. a website for the client? Surely it's no different to a self-employed brick layer working alongside someone like a site foreman who may say, "I don't want that wall there any more, can you rebuild it over there instead"?

Would agree its about time IPSE got involved in things like this.

I thought that this was already the case, and that they'd already been involved in the initial consultation phase etc?

[BlasterBates]

Just yet another nail in the already heavily nailed contractor coffin.