Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer
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"IR35 could well be dead in a few months" ?
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I'd love to get the view of some of the accountants on this forum because as my accountant has just indicated to me - this could affect him and other accountants too! If one of his clients approaches him with a particularly complicated query that requires specialist advice, and he sub-contracts to a tax specialist to assist him with the query, does he now have to report that? The possibilities are endless...Comment
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This from HMRC in reply to my question of yesterday:
I realise this is going to be disappointing but your correspondent is going to need to complete a return if as set out here they use a subcontractor to provide to the client the services their company has contracted to provide:
• The law requires the company - the relevant intermediary, to complete the return if "more than one individual provides services to a client under or in consequence of a contract between the employment intermediary and one or more clients".
• If only one person in the employ of a personal service company (for example the contractor who owns it) provides services to a client that is not caught. If two people in the employ of a personal service company provides service to a client (for example the contractor and a subcontractor) then the PSC has an obligation to tell us.
• So yes, if you but in someone else to provide the services to the client (ie carry out the work the client contracted to have done) then you are going to have to compelete a return telling us about the people the company pays to provide services.
I trust this helps.Comment
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Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View PostThis from HMRC in reply to my question of yesterday:
I realise this is going to be disappointing but your correspondent is going to need to complete a return if as set out here they use a subcontractor to provide to the client the services their company has contracted to provide:
• The law requires the company - the relevant intermediary, to complete the return if "more than one individual provides services to a client under or in consequence of a contract between the employment intermediary and one or more clients".
• If only one person in the employ of a personal service company (for example the contractor who owns it) provides services to a client that is not caught. If two people in the employ of a personal service company provides service to a client (for example the contractor and a subcontractor) then the PSC has an obligation to tell us.
• So yes, if you but in someone else to provide the services to the client (ie carry out the work the client contracted to have done) then you are going to have to compelete a return telling us about the people the company pays to provide services.
I trust this helps.
Can you keep asking them until you get the correct answer?
They're on another planet if they think this is going to be workable.Comment
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I think HMRC have truly lost the plot on this one.
I also take it the same rules apply to any company so I don't understand why the HMRC response keeps going on about personal service companies.
What exactly are HMRC going to do to inform every single UK business about these new rules? They must realise it's going to affect lots of small businesses and not just agencies right?Last edited by TheCyclingProgrammer; 18 February 2015, 09:24.Comment
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Originally posted by jamesbrown View PostThanks, Lisa.
Can you keep asking them until you get the correct answer?
They're on another planet if they think this is going to be workable.Comment
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Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer View PostI think HMRC have truly lost the plot on this one.Comment
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Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View PostI can certainly ask In all seriousness, if you want to put some points together about unworkability or whatever I'll be happy to send something over to them
It's one thing to scope this as supplying positions at a client, i.e. the core business of an agency, but it's another thing entirely to report on all work completed by subcontractors; essentially, this will scope most small businesses (and, certainly, all medium/large businesses) as employment intermediaries at one point or another.Comment
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Just reading the legislation amendment and the very first bullet point where it defines "specified employment intermediary" is that the intermediary "is an agency" but I can't see where this is defined. Any pointers?
Taking the law and guidance at face value, what's to stop a company from saying "I'm not an agency" and they can stick their reports? I want to see the legislation that would make my business, or any business that uses sub contractors on end client projects, an "agency".
I'm starting to believe this is yet another case of HMRC wilfully misinterpreting legislation. The law doesn't just say "employment intermediaries" it says "specified employment intermediaries" and part of that specification is that the intermediary is an agency. Which would make sense.
So whilst I can accept sub-contracting might make you an "intermediary" I don't accept that it makes you an agency and therefore a "specified intermediary".
Or is it me that's misreading this?Last edited by TheCyclingProgrammer; 18 February 2015, 09:50.Comment
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Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer View PostJust reading the legislation amendment and the very first bullet point where it defines "specified employment intermediary" is that the intermediary "is an agency" but I can't see where this is defined. Any pointers?
Taking the law and guidance at face value, what's to stop a company from saying "I'm not an agency" and they can stick their reports? I want to see the legislation that would make my business, or any business that uses sub contractors on end client projects, an "agency".
I'm starting to believe this is yet another case of HMRC wilfully misinterpreting legislation. The law doesn't just say "employment intermediaries" it says "specified employment intermediaries" and part of that specification is that the intermediary is an agency. Which would make sense.
So whilst I can accept sub-contracting might make you an "intermediary" I don't accept that it makes you an agency and therefore a "specified intermediary".
Or is it me that's misreading this?
"If the PSC subcontracts to another PSC or where more than one worker of the PSC provides services to an end client they will be caught by the legislation as a specified employment intermediary and would need to file a return."Comment
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