Can I chase my umbrella companies' debt for them?

**northernladuk** · 9 July 2014, 16:58

Originally posted by ux101 View Post

Hello all, long time lurker first time poster etc. - usual salutations apply.

Gladiators and radiators to you sir.

Last year I took on a contract unwisely, it was underpaid and undesirable in a few ways - oops.

Should have subbed Psychocandy in. Sounds right up his street.

Lucky for me a couple of months in I got an excellent chance to move. I scoured my contract for exit clauses and notice periods and came up with nothing.

That means there isn't one.....I wonder if it's going to go downhill from here.....

Trying to be fair to the client and not walk out straight away, and trying to be fair to my new client I decided a week was about right for a newbie and gave notice.

Being fair to the client would mean you honour your contract as you can't give notice.

- The agency were pissed off. UX people are not easy to find and finding the right one is quite rare.

This came as a surprise to you?

- The agency said I had a 4 week notice

Unless it was a FTC he's shot himself in the foot there. You don't have any.

- The agency declined my offer to meet in the middle at 2 weeks

Quite understandably.

- The agency legal guy said they didn't accept my notice and if I didn't turn up one day it'd be a breach of contract for not giving notice

Technically correct.

- The agency legal guy knew nothing about 4 weeks when I referenced it and said I cannot give notice at all

Correct again. You've actually found an agent that knows what he is talking about for a change.

- The agency still declined my notice, so I told the client directly

Hmm. How did that go down?

- The agency said if I tried to use right to substitution they'd find a way around it

Quite correct and should have been the first thing you did in this situation.

- The client continued to sign off my timesheets

Of course they would. Why wouldn't they.

- I left, and kept my boss in the loop the whole time.

How did he take it. I wouldn't blame him if he was pretty hacked off with you as well.

- The agency owe me a months wages

Pretty standard stuff but a moot point. You breached contract so you in theory should owe them something. Anyway, that's not really relevant. You worked it and timesheet was signed so yes they owe you it.

It's now been about 9 months and I've held a grudge for the first time in my life. I know, they looked stupid because their guy left. I know, they had wanted to make more money out of me. Fact is their wish washy contract left them in a bad position.

Wrong, your misunderstanding of your contract left them in a bad position. Why the hell have you left it 9 month?!?!?

Not wanting to get it to any lengthy discussions about the admittedly undesirable way in which I left (hey, I'm not the only one to have done it) I was wondering if it would be possible for me to take the agency to the small claims court on behalf of the umbrella company I used? It was a small company and they have no obligation to chase it up, but I want paying!

Thank you in advance, all!

Hell yes. Umbrella should be doing it as they are your employer. They do have an obligation to chase it. You are an employee of theirs and you earned the money. They are also losing money here.

Anyway... You could really have condensed this to one line which we get time and time again. Gave Notice, Agent Won't Pay Last Month.

Use the search method as detailed below and look at the 100's of other threads that we have about this and follow the standard advice that is given in all of them...

http://forums.contractoruk.com/welco...uk-forums.html

See if the agent will pay you directly. If the umbrella won't chase it then f'em when it comes to the money.

Some extra snippets for you..
Get your contract reviewed properly and understand it in future as well.
Contracting is a small world, particularly if it is niche. This isn't a good thing to happen.
Read up about Opt In/Out as this would have a bearing here. There is a huge sticky on it at the top of the business forums about this.

**SueEllen** · 9 July 2014, 17:01

Talk to your umbrella company.

You would need them:
1. To check the contract between themselves and the agency, or forward a copy to you to see if they can do this
2. To give you permission to chase the debt on their behalf. This would need to come from one of the directors.

If you had a right of substitution in the contract did you offer the agency this in writing i.e. email? Basically the more you put down in written communication to show that the agency was unreasonable the less FUD the agency can come back with and the more likely you are to get your money.

**Wanderer** · 9 July 2014, 19:32

Did you agree to opt out of the agency regulations? If you didn't opt out then they are acting illegally by withholding payment. See the Agency Regulations section 12(c). If you did agree to opt out then you know not to do this in future...

The umbrella is going to be disinclined to chase the agency for payment because they would like to stay on good terms with the agency (who potentially brings them a lot of business) so they will fob you off.

**ux101** · 9 July 2014, 21:17

Thanks for the advice all. Northerladuk thanks for taking the time to answer the post in such detail with the unique forthright manner which I've come to expect from you, and quite enjoy.

I hadn't realised that there was such a contract as one that could not be left. I'll be sure to watch out for that one in the future. I've seen a decent one come up in a few places recently where you get a free boat ride to the states, work in agriculture and get board and food thrown in! The boats are a bit packed and it doesn't mention the day rate, guessing the cotton picking industry is pretty relaxed about people moving between employers - I hope!

I think it may be time to call it a day on ever seeing the money, in fact I had done, it just really narks me that I worked away from home for so long and didn't see any remuneration. It's all about the principle, man. (says the chap who left)

Wanderer I'm afraid I did opt out and have learned from the experience! It's funny now I know what it is that agents push you to opt out with such vigour. Maybe if they were a bit more subtle about it we'd not be so suspicious!

**Wanderer** · 9 July 2014, 21:28

Originally posted by ux101 View Post

Wanderer I'm afraid I did opt out and have learned from the experience! It's funny now I know what it is that agents push you to opt out with such vigour. Maybe if they were a bit more subtle about it we'd not be so suspicious!

Ahh, you know about the opt out for next time.

I wouldn't just let it go though - fight back!

Have you spoken to the client to ask them if they have paid the agency and tell them the agency is refusing to pay?

Perhaps Lisa or Safe Collections can comment on what the legal position is when an agency refuses to pay a contractor for work done.

**Contreras** · 9 July 2014, 23:35

Originally posted by ux101 View Post

I was wondering if it would be possible for me to take the agency to the small claims court on behalf of the umbrella company I used?

Answered here a couple of months ago: http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...can-i-sue.html

Originally posted by ux101 View Post

It was a small company and they have no obligation to chase it up, but I want paying!

Why not, is this what your employment contract says? I've only scanned the thread, sorry if this has already been covered.

You can raise a claim against your employer online. It's actually very straight forward (or was when I did it some years ago), just stick to the facts. There is a fixed period in which they must respond in writing (to the court). ACAS will try and negotiate a settlement to avoid it going to tribunal. Costs a couple hundred quid to do online I think and you don't need a lawyer. Only you can decide if this is worth it to kick the Umbrella into gear.

Has the agency been paid by the client? If so then I can't see how the opt-out is relevant in this case.

**Wanderer** · 10 July 2014, 00:38

Originally posted by Contreras View Post

You can raise a claim against your employer online.

Good advice!

Originally posted by Contreras View Post

Has the agency been paid by the client? If so then I can't see how the opt-out is relevant in this case.

The opt out status is important because if the worker doesn't opt out and the agency doesn't pay then they may be committing a criminal offence under the Agency Regulations section 12(c) which is a rather more serious matter than a civil dispute over an unpaid invoice....

Unfortunately in this case the OP opted out.

**mudskipper** · 10 July 2014, 05:57

Originally posted by Contreras View Post

Has the agency been paid by the client?

I think this is what I'd be trying to find out.

**LisaContractorUmbrella** · 10 July 2014, 07:05

IMHO this is a bit of a tricky one. You could argue, if your final work was signed off and paid for by the client, then you are entitled to that money regardless. However, the agency could argue that you were in breach of contract as you were contracted to work for a certain period and failed to do so. If you were to take the matter to court, you could be faced with a counter suit from the agency for their loss of earnings from the contract. I could imagine that the Judge could take the position that the two cases would pretty much cancel each other out in which case you would have both wasted your time.

Your umbrella company is your employer and therefore they should chase the debt for you. If this were me I think I would try to mediate and reach a compromise with the agency so that at least you could end up with something

Can I chase my umbrella companies' debt for them?