Why don't I see the normal working hours on my contract?

[kesm]

I was just issued a contract which states:

“Normal Working Hours”: means the number of hours required for the Contractor to perform the Services as agreed between the Client and Contractor.

Shouldn't the contract state
that the normal working hours are 9-5:30pm or 8:30 - 5pm?
Otherwise I can see the client asking me to work overtime every time.

Many thanks

[DirtyDog]

Normal working hours is what employees have. Suppliers are free to negotiate their own conditions.

[kesm]

So if I ask for the contract to state that normal working hours are 8:30-5 with 1 hour lunch break, with that be considered within IR35 or outside?

[northernladuk]

Negotiate then. Put what suits you in there but prepared for them to say no. You could of course ask what normal working hours are before getting upset about it.

Having open hours can work in your favour allowing flexibility to come in at times to suit you as well.

[kesm]

What the actual clause says is: means the number of hours required for the Contractor to perform the Services as agreed between the Client and Contractor.

So if I show up and they ask me for a task at 5pm to be completed at that day I cannot really say that I have 30 mins to finish it so it will have to be done tomorrow. Do you know what I mean?

[northernladuk]

So if I ask for the contract to state that normal working hours are 8:30-5 with 1 hour lunch break, with that be considered within IR35 or outside?

Interesting you use those numbers...

IR35: Top 5 Misconceptions - Contractor Weekly

My contract states the hours that I have to work – this means I’m controlled by the client.
You have to be a little careful here. Clearly it’s not going to be good if your contract states you must work ‘8.30am to 5.00pm with 1 hour lunch break’, which is something you’d see in an employment agreement. However, the rate of payment for many contracts is based on a professional working day. So, if your contract sets out what that is, it isn’t necessarily a problem.
If you do conform to your client’s working hours and HMRC query this, a good counter argument is that you need access to their systems so it makes business sense to work on the same basis as they do.

[northernladuk]

What the actual clause says is: means the number of hours required for the Contractor to perform the Services as agreed between the Client and Contractor.

So if I show up and they ask me for a task at 5pm to be completed at that day I cannot really say that I have 30 mins to finish it so it will have to be done tomorrow. Do you know what I mean?

Nope.

[kevpuk]

I am quite happy with Professional Working Day clauses in general.......for the most part, my contracts have not stipulated specific times and that suits me just fine. My current gig actually does mention somewhere a definition of a PWD as 8hrs, but then goes on to state that 1-4hrs are expected to be billed as half-day, and 5-8hrs as full day. Now, if I were that way inclined, I guess that would mean 5hrs/day gets me a full day billed......but I suspect the chances of getting prematurely binned would exponentially increase!

Permies here seem to be pretty flexible in their hours, but the general consensus is their working day is 7.25hrs......so I am tend to work a similar amount, give or take

TBH, I don't think the hours are *that* big a part of any IR35 consideration - actual working practices are far more important. For example, I grabbed a couple of decent bonus points in my mind in current gig, as have to supply my own suitably specced laptop, don't get the £5/day card load the permies get, have to park at a different location (albeit with a free shuttle bus) and so on.....add in a non-equal termination clause (I have to give more notice than client) and the hours thing pales into insignificance

[kesm]

SHall i state that I want my contract to state 7.5 hours per working day?

[northernladuk]

SHall i state that I want my contract to state 7.5 hours per working day?

Doesn't really matter. It's what you agree with the client regardless of what it says on your contract. Important part of contracting is managing your client. Putting numbers on a piece of paper won't amount to anything. Depends if you are a clock watcher and aim to do the absolute minimum or you are going to approach it professionally.