Permitractor theory

chris79 · 15th July 2008, 18:58

Ever since joining up on here and becoming a contractor myself, I've been hearing stories about how clients (esp. big ones) have a tendency to treat their consultants/contractors like permanent staff (by that I mean rules such as holidays, breaks, start/finish times, training, meetings, expectation of line management, etc).

I've come to the conclusion that whilst in our own minds we are setup as a limited company and operate as a completely separate business, the client very often overlooks this, or fails to see it altogether (from my own experience too). I've tried to position myself in my head as being 'the client' and come up with the theory that the reason behind this is because we are recruited as a resource quite often from an 'agency'. This kind of implies that we have been supplied or are working under the agency as staff, rather than being supplied as a 3rd party? From the clients perspective this in a way feels to them like they are buying in the resource to be used like temporary staff, and as such the expectation is that you are filling a slot/position within the company and are somehow bound under terms dictated by THEM (the client).

From my own experience I don't even think the perm staff/managers who I work with realise (or care) that I'm a limited company and supplying my services to them, it's very much a 'fit in or bye bye' attitude. This is very frustrating for IR35 as it makes it impossible to act as a company in fear of pissing the client off and losing your extension (unless of course you are gods gift and 1 of a kind and you dictate your terms to them), but quite often big companies I find are more than happy to just see you out the door knowing the next resource will be supplied minutes later bankrolled off the back of multi-million pound turnovers.

I don't think there is an easy way to address this other than either accept it, or walk, but walking is only disadvantaging yourself really.

SandyDown · 15th July 2008, 19:46

arrrgh get over yourself will you!!!

FFS, every contractor now think they are so iffing special... nanananan I got my Ltd ..nananana I am a real company ...

Pleaaaaaase... work, invoice and shutup!!

SandyDown · 15th July 2008, 19:47

Oh just realised Chris can be Denny

if this is Denny then

hey girl.. how are ya??

thunderlizard · 15th July 2008, 21:03

Chris, you are absolutely right. Agents often act as if they are supplying people, and even if you tell the agent "we are a consultancy and we prefer to use a variety of staff and complete projects for fixed price", they usually will tell the client "This is Chris, he's got x years' experience of y and his expected wage is z".

chris79 · 15th July 2008, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandyDown

arrrgh get over yourself will you!!!

FFS, every contractor now think they are so iffing special... nanananan I got my Ltd ..nananana I am a real company ...

Pleaaaaaase... work, invoice and shutup!!

This was directed at professionals running a limited company, not agency staff or umbrella staff so I guess it might not apply to everyone on this forum. Sorry to waste your time!

thunderlizard · 15th July 2008, 21:31

Well, there are also a bunch of people who get a bit of sympathy from me.

These are the people who would prefer to be temporary employees, but get told by their agencies that the only way to operate is to set up a limited company that is only ever going to be a bit of a sham.

Moscow Mule · 15th July 2008, 21:33

I'd much rather be self-employed, but poorly thought through legislation ****ed that option a while ago.

SandyDown · 15th July 2008, 21:35

i have a Ltd company, but cuz i have to (its the most efficient way of working as a contractor) If I was able to work as a freelancer and have all the Ltd company benefit, then i would've done that.... have no ambition of becoming a consultancy or any other kind of supply business... just want to work as a contractor, earn good money, that's all

chris79 · 15th July 2008, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandyDown

i have a Ltd company, but cuz i have to (its the most efficient way of working as a contractor) If I was able to work as a freelancer and have all the Ltd company benefit, then i would've done that.... have no ambition of becoming a consultancy or any other kind of supply business... just want to work as a contractor, earn good money, that's all

So you are a limited co, but don't care about the implications of IR35 then (in summary). Well some of us do, as there is a large financial penalty at stake, so feel free to run your business (because whether you like it or not, that's what it is) how you wish, but don't try and make out everyone should adopt your approach based on the insecure and flawed reasons you stated.

(Unless of course you are paying full PAYE like a good girl).

Fred Bloggs · 16th July 2008, 08:19

After 5 years and about 10 different contracts, myself, I'd say 99% of clients DO just want a temp. I'm forced through the ltd co route whether I want it or not. I do NOT want to be an employee though.