Contracts 'likely to go perm' - a new trend?

[FrontEnder]

I've had a couple of agents phone about ones like this. They sounded really enthusiastic about the going permanent part i.e.

"It's a 3 month contract and a really good chance of this being made permanent after that!"

Didn't get why I didn't share the enthusiasm at all.

[LondonManc]

I've had a couple of agents phone about ones like this. They sounded really enthusiastic about the going permanent part i.e.

"It's a 3 month contract and a really good chance of this being made permanent after that!"

Didn't get why I didn't share the enthusiasm at all.

"What would the salary be?" is usually a good way to sort that one out.

[NibblyPig]

Ask what the project is.

I've worked at places that are desperate for permies but they hire contractors for a specific project. A couple have asked if I would consider staying on as a permie once the project was completed. If I accepted I would be doing all their crappy meetings and PDP and be involved in all kinds of other stuff they had going on, so no thx. If they have a specific product they're trying to get out of the door and they're woefully understaffed, it's not unreasonable that they'd bring in outside help just for that.

But it's not guaranteed that you'll be hired as a disguised permie. I would check. And I'd be enthusiastic about the chance to switch to permie if it sounds IR35 compliant, just to help ensure I get the gig. But I wouldn't go permie.

[psychocandy]

Red flag for me. Either the client just doesnt understand why someone would want to remain as a contractor or they're going to have a chip on their shoulder that they dont really want to pay contractor rates.

[LondonManc]

Red flag for me. Either the client just doesnt understand why someone would want to remain as a contractor or they're going to have a chip on their shoulder that they dont really want to pay contractor rates.

Also an expectation management opportunity to get yourself repeat business. Get to know the hiring manager, ask them why it's contract to perm. If it's an out-and-out project, explain that it should be contract and your costs written off against it. If it's BAU work, it should never have been contract in the first place.

[Hobosapien]

Why do you think IR35 kicks in after 6 months????

Not sure. Maybe it's something I've read somewhere, possibly how the public sector handle IR35 and new contractors with having to do BET and jump through other hoops within a certain time frame of starting, and if they fail they either prove they're complying with IR35 or terminate.

Common sense would suggest HMRC aren't going to investigate short term contracts and as each contract is evaluated for IR35 separately I'd consider a 3 monther a safe bet, maybe 6 monther. I imagine they'd start with long term contracts where the pay off is worth the cost of investigation. All still a risk though as HMRC and common sense are an oxymoron.

[LondonManc]

Not sure. Maybe it's something I've read somewhere, possibly how the public sector handle IR35 and new contractors with having to do BET and jump through other hoops within a certain time frame of starting, and if they fail they either prove they're complying with IR35 or terminate.

Common sense would suggest HMRC aren't going to investigate short term contracts and as each contract is evaluated for IR35 separately I'd consider a 3 monther a safe bet, maybe 6 monther. I imagine they'd start with long term contracts where the pay off is worth the cost of investigation. All still a risk though as HMRC and common sense are an oxymoron.

It's public sector procedure rather than the general rule

A 12-month contract would flag disguised perm imo - I can see why you'd think that. When used properly, we're brought in as specialists and/or fillers for resource blips to complete projects, rather than just to increase BAU Team bandwidth for example. Obviously it could be argued that a 12-month contract de-risks a longer project, but arguably taking on a perm and retaining the knowledge would de-risk it even further if the engagement was expected to be longer term.

[northernladuk]

Not sure. Maybe it's something I've read somewhere, possibly how the public sector handle IR35 and new contractors with having to do BET and jump through other hoops within a certain time frame of starting, and if they fail they either prove they're complying with IR35 or terminate.

That's only contractors on the CL1 framework though Capita. It's not all like that in the public sector.

Common sense would suggest HMRC aren't going to investigate short term contracts and as each contract is evaluated for IR35 separately I'd consider a 3 monther a safe bet, maybe 6 monther. I imagine they'd start with long term contracts where the pay off is worth the cost of investigation. All still a risk though as HMRC and common sense are an oxymoron.

No point worrying about this element of it. We still have heated debates about people with 2+ years being very high risk and so on. Up to a couple of years the time spent is not really a flag so wouldn't worry about it. The difference between a 3 monther and 6 is irrelevant.

[AnotherGuy]

Super red-flag for me. Quite common with early stage startups, they raised some funding and they are looking for someone to build EVERYTHING and to be best friends.

And yes, it seems to be quite common in the last few months. I've been told this contract-to-perm bulls*it at least 3 times in the last month. They always paint it as an amazing opportunity I would be stupid to reject.
Well, I rejected all of them

[Boo]

IME the whole contract/temp-to-perm thing is a cover for poor contract rates and worse permanent salaries. I wouldn't even pickup if I knew in advance it was ttp.

Boo