Reply to: Contracts 'likely to go perm' - a new trend?

[ckms]

Doesn't really matter now. They gave the gig to someone local. Turns out the role wasn't in London as stated by the agent but 60 miles up the M1 in Northampton!

[seanraaron]

Unless you want to stay a contractor for other reason than money, I don't see the big deal on contract to perm in fact in some cases I see it as bonus as a lot of places tend to use a specific calc's to work out your permy salary based on day rate, more often than not I've seen the end figure being far higher than they would of offered if they had looked straight for a permy.

If the gig was a good one I'd be cool with that; still expect a big hit compared to contract rate though.

[ELBBUBKUNPS]

Unless you want to stay a contractor for other reason than money, I don't see the big deal on contract to perm in fact in some cases I see it as bonus as a lot of places tend to use a specific calc's to work out your permy salary based on day rate, more often than not I've seen the end figure being far higher than they would of offered if they had looked straight for a permy.

[seanraaron]

Maybe the public sector are going to slash contract rates so they're in line with the crap permanent rates?

It's a shame because I'd like a perm gig with a council or something, union dues and all.

[SueEllen]

I've had agents saying "I should take the perm, as the the government are looking to bring wages in line with perms"

[CloudWalker]

I've had agents saying "I should take the perm, as the the government are looking to bring wages in line with perms"

[LondonManc]

Outside IR35 v Inside IR35 - get yer spreadsheet out and see what the equivalent rate would need to be. Then you can take your CTP contract, treat it as inside and tell them thanks but no thanks on the "to perm" bit because the project isn't what you'd hoped or some other BS.

[Boo]

IME the whole contract/temp-to-perm thing is a cover for poor contract rates and worse permanent salaries. I wouldn't even pickup if I knew in advance it was ttp.

Boo

[AnotherGuy]

Super red-flag for me. Quite common with early stage startups, they raised some funding and they are looking for someone to build EVERYTHING and to be best friends.

And yes, it seems to be quite common in the last few months. I've been told this contract-to-perm bulls*it at least 3 times in the last month. They always paint it as an amazing opportunity I would be stupid to reject.
Well, I rejected all of them

[northernladuk]

Not sure. Maybe it's something I've read somewhere, possibly how the public sector handle IR35 and new contractors with having to do BET and jump through other hoops within a certain time frame of starting, and if they fail they either prove they're complying with IR35 or terminate.

That's only contractors on the CL1 framework though Capita. It's not all like that in the public sector.

Common sense would suggest HMRC aren't going to investigate short term contracts and as each contract is evaluated for IR35 separately I'd consider a 3 monther a safe bet, maybe 6 monther. I imagine they'd start with long term contracts where the pay off is worth the cost of investigation. All still a risk though as HMRC and common sense are an oxymoron.

No point worrying about this element of it. We still have heated debates about people with 2+ years being very high risk and so on. Up to a couple of years the time spent is not really a flag so wouldn't worry about it. The difference between a 3 monther and 6 is irrelevant.

[LondonManc]

Not sure. Maybe it's something I've read somewhere, possibly how the public sector handle IR35 and new contractors with having to do BET and jump through other hoops within a certain time frame of starting, and if they fail they either prove they're complying with IR35 or terminate.

Common sense would suggest HMRC aren't going to investigate short term contracts and as each contract is evaluated for IR35 separately I'd consider a 3 monther a safe bet, maybe 6 monther. I imagine they'd start with long term contracts where the pay off is worth the cost of investigation. All still a risk though as HMRC and common sense are an oxymoron.

It's public sector procedure rather than the general rule

A 12-month contract would flag disguised perm imo - I can see why you'd think that. When used properly, we're brought in as specialists and/or fillers for resource blips to complete projects, rather than just to increase BAU Team bandwidth for example. Obviously it could be argued that a 12-month contract de-risks a longer project, but arguably taking on a perm and retaining the knowledge would de-risk it even further if the engagement was expected to be longer term.

[Hobosapien]

Why do you think IR35 kicks in after 6 months????

Not sure. Maybe it's something I've read somewhere, possibly how the public sector handle IR35 and new contractors with having to do BET and jump through other hoops within a certain time frame of starting, and if they fail they either prove they're complying with IR35 or terminate.

Common sense would suggest HMRC aren't going to investigate short term contracts and as each contract is evaluated for IR35 separately I'd consider a 3 monther a safe bet, maybe 6 monther. I imagine they'd start with long term contracts where the pay off is worth the cost of investigation. All still a risk though as HMRC and common sense are an oxymoron.

[LondonManc]

Red flag for me. Either the client just doesnt understand why someone would want to remain as a contractor or they're going to have a chip on their shoulder that they dont really want to pay contractor rates.

Also an expectation management opportunity to get yourself repeat business. Get to know the hiring manager, ask them why it's contract to perm. If it's an out-and-out project, explain that it should be contract and your costs written off against it. If it's BAU work, it should never have been contract in the first place.

[psychocandy]

Red flag for me. Either the client just doesnt understand why someone would want to remain as a contractor or they're going to have a chip on their shoulder that they dont really want to pay contractor rates.

[NibblyPig]

Ask what the project is.

I've worked at places that are desperate for permies but they hire contractors for a specific project. A couple have asked if I would consider staying on as a permie once the project was completed. If I accepted I would be doing all their crappy meetings and PDP and be involved in all kinds of other stuff they had going on, so no thx. If they have a specific product they're trying to get out of the door and they're woefully understaffed, it's not unreasonable that they'd bring in outside help just for that.

But it's not guaranteed that you'll be hired as a disguised permie. I would check. And I'd be enthusiastic about the chance to switch to permie if it sounds IR35 compliant, just to help ensure I get the gig. But I wouldn't go permie.