Crunch

[IR35 Avoider]

If I ever resume working to a degree that would justify using a company instead of an umbrella, I'm seriously thinking of using <removed - no links to providers please>

As the article below indicates, they have some impressive backers. And the founder himself made millions with a previous business. (So I conclude this is a serious operation.)

http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419...-crunch.co.uk/

I like the idea of on-line accountancy software that does everything for you. With the way HMRC are automating, it's probably already possible to file all your returns (payroll, corporation tax, VAT) direct from software, so I'm guessing that Crunch will do this, either now or in the near future. I think I even read something on their site that if you use a particular bank, they will pull banking transactions into their sofware automatically.

All this for £60 per month. At that price it wouldn't be hard to get profits from flat-rate VAT to pay all the accounting bills. You could end up with HMRC paying you to run a company!

Of course the price may just be a loss leader. However it does seem to be generally true that it costs the same or less in accountancy overheads to run a limited company, which operates payroll for one person, than to add oneself to the payroll of an umbrella. This is very odd, does anyone have an explanation?

[darren_fell]

Crunch - how we make it work

Hi there,

Many thanks for posing your question and kind comments.

Crunch is the result of 2 1/2 years of solid work dis-assembling an ordinary Chartered Accountancy Practice and re-assembling with every piece of technology available. We've managed to automate all the mundane back office tasks, allowing us to reduce the back office staff required, yet provide your own Account Manager and Accountants on the end of the phone. We pass on all our savings to our customers.

This is all about offering an outstanding level of service. At £59.50+VAT per month, given the massive investment in technology and key personnel, we can make good profit and continue scaling the business for our customers.

Of course in comparison to an Umbrella firm you'll be so much more tax efficient with a Limited Company and as the full cost of the Accountancy can be charged as an expense to the business it's actually effectively only £47 + VAT per month!

Thanks,

Darren.
Crunch Team

[northernladuk]

Darren,

I think the idea of him posting his question here was to get a hands on opinion from his colleagues and people in a similar situation, not to get the same sales pitch he has already read on the sights already linked.

Thanks for your input and good job at marketing yourself to us....

[jmo21]

Hi there,

Many thanks for posing your question and kind comments.

Crunch is the result of 2 1/2 years of solid work dis-assembling an ordinary Chartered Accountancy Practice and re-assembling with every piece of technology available. We've managed to automate all the mundane back office tasks, allowing us to reduce the back office staff required, yet provide your own Account Manager and Accountants on the end of the phone. We pass on all our savings to our customers.

This is all about offering an outstanding level of service. At £59.50+VAT per month, given the massive investment in technology and key personnel, we can make good profit and continue scaling the business for our customers.

Of course in comparison to an Umbrella firm you'll be so much more tax efficient with a Limited Company and as the full cost of the Accountancy can be charged as an expense to the business it's actually effectively only £47 + VAT per month!

Thanks,

Darren.
Crunch Team

Worth pointing out that it's an extra £120+vat for personal tax return that SJD includes as part of the normal fee

And what do you mean by "pay yourself online" in this table? Is this via the business bank account integration? How many banks does that work with?

[williamdavis]

Hi there,

Many thanks for posing your question and kind comments.

Crunch is the result of 2 1/2 years of solid work dis-assembling an ordinary Chartered Accountancy Practice and re-assembling with every piece of technology available. We've managed to automate all the mundane back office tasks, allowing us to reduce the back office staff required, yet provide your own Account Manager and Accountants on the end of the phone. We pass on all our savings to our customers.

This is all about offering an outstanding level of service. At £59.50+VAT per month, given the massive investment in technology and key personnel, we can make good profit and continue scaling the business for our customers.

Of course in comparison to an Umbrella firm you'll be so much more tax efficient with a Limited Company and as the full cost of the Accountancy can be charged as an expense to the business it's actually effectively only £47 + VAT per month!

Thanks,

Darren.
Crunch Team

Hi Darren,

I've just checked out your site and was a little surprised to read that one of the requirements of being an account manager and by being an account manager I take it this will be the person who is supposed to answer all my questions about contracting, in fact as you detail so eloquently on your site- expert personal accounting team, that you just need 'At least 1 years experience working in an office environment but I was glad to read you do ask for a good attention to detail.

One years experience and a basic salary of £13,500, doesn't really fill me with confidence that I'll be speaking to a seasoned accountant who will be familiar with the trials and challenges of going limited.

I do see that I can arrange a call with an expert at your convenience, I say your convenience as if it were at my convenience I'd speak to them when I called and not have to call back again.

Come on Darren own up, you've got an online bookkeeping package that you've developed and are now hoping to bang it out for £59.50 a month, and behind the scenes you've got a call centre with a team of people with a minimum of one years office experience.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to take the plunge and go limited and the 1001 questions that are running through the persons mind. When I went contracting I must have spent hours talking to my accountant about IR35, expenses, VAT, corporation tax, pensions, mortgages etc.

[malvolio]

A minor detal worth pondering, BTW...

DIY accounting is all well and good if that's what floats your boat. I CBA myself, and I used to be an accountant (perhaps that's why, of course). However, you do the work yourself, for free, using up your own free time to do it. So that's costing you double your usual hourly rate for probably five hours a month work plus £60 for access to Crunch.

SJD charge me £95 a month

So if you're on more than £3.50 an hour, which is the cheaper option again?

[Tarquin Farquhar]

A minor detal worth pondering, BTW...

DIY accounting is all well and good if that's what floats your boat. I CBA myself, and I used to be an accountant (perhaps that's why, of course). However, you do the work yourself, for free, using up your own free time to do it. So that's costing you double your usual hourly rate for probably five hours a month work ...

Very good point that you should budget for your time, but I'm not sure I can buy this "double" bit, though I see where it comes from.

you do the work yourself, for free,
OK, that's 1, for not billing

using up your own free time to do it
OK, that's 2, for losing the free time.

But you didn't mention:
"then you get the result for free"
which is -1, for getting the result without paying somebody else to do it.

So net it's costing you exactly the time that you spent, not double it.

Which is obvious anyway: if you normally bill £100/hour, and you spend 3 hours of your time to get something that you would otherwise have to pay somebody £300 for, you are even, not down double time.

[s2budd]

"One years experience and a basic salary of £13,500, doesn't really fill me with confidence that I'll be speaking to a seasoned accountant who will be familiar with the trials and challenges of going limited."

That's why I'm sticking to my "expensive" accountant. No offense, some want a no frills accountant but not me.

[malvolio]

Very good point that you should budget for your time, but I'm not sure I can buy this "double" bit, though I see where it comes from.

you do the work yourself, for free,
OK, that's 1, for not billing

using up your own free time to do it
OK, that's 2, for losing the free time.

But you didn't mention:
"then you get the result for free"
which is -1, for getting the result without paying somebody else to do it.

So net it's costing you exactly the time that you spent, not double it.

Which is obvious anyway: if you normally bill £100/hour, and you spend 3 hours of your time to get something that you would otherwise have to pay somebody £300 for, you are even, not down double time.

No. It's not free, it's costing you your day rate to do it.

Either way, repeat using a minimum £7 an hour. You get the same answer.

[northernladuk]

Darren,

There was a guy on here not wanting to bill too often to keep his bank balance down and therefor avoid tax. You might wanna drop him a PM!