Up to 90%

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

No doubt, but it's their users that enter the firing line because of the rule bending, the worst that's ever likely to happen to the providers is the closure of the schemes which is no real skin off their nose.

That new scheme you mentioned will no doubt attract plenty of people and make the providers a pretty penny, until the business model fails that will continue indefinitely.

Unfortunately I think you could be right although I will continue to hope to the contrary

[TykeMerc]

Unfortunately I think you could be right although I will continue to hope to the contrary

Believe me I earnestly wish I was wrong.

It is terrifying - the schemes use the term umbrella and basically ride the backs of compliant and legal operations. "We're just a normal umbrella - but with better returns!

In fairness, some schemes do back their claims up and appear to be ready to pursue through the courts, but others change their names subtly and abandon their users to their fate.

True that many are marketed as 'clever' umbrella companies and there's an endless supply of ill informed newbies (and decades of experience) contractors to fill out their customer bases, it's a sad fact that the scheme providers don't carry any substantive liability so they carry on dragging in meat for the HMRC grinder to mulch later.

Like TestMangler I've come across loads of contractors actively using schemes, very few have any appreciation that they're taking any risk and some have been using them for years blissfully assuming all their tax affairs are straight and above board. Even though they're paying bugger all in tax on ~80-100k a year incomes it's all good to them.

[centurian]

Like TestMangler I've come across loads of contractors actively using schemes, very few have any appreciation that they're taking any risk and some have been using them for years blissfully assuming all their tax affairs are straight and above board. Even though they're paying bugger all in tax on ~80-100k a year incomes it's all good to them.

There is nothing wrong in taking a risk to get a higher reward - and I have no issue if someone says "okay, this may come back to bite me, but I think it's a risk worth taking". And maybe some of those in the schemes today take this approach - damn good luck to them.

How many of the current people in schemes fall into this category - a very small percentage I suspect. The rest are either totally in denial, or just plain stupid when it comes to seeing the blinding obvious.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Believe me I earnestly wish I was wrong.



True that many are marketed as 'clever' umbrella companies and there's an endless supply of ill informed newbies (and decades of experience) contractors to fill out their customer bases, it's a sad fact that the scheme providers don't carry any substantive liability so they carry on dragging in meat for the HMRC grinder to mulch later.

Like TestMangler I've come across loads of contractors actively using schemes, very few have any appreciation that they're taking any risk and some have been using them for years blissfully assuming all their tax affairs are straight and above board. Even though they're paying bugger all in tax on ~80-100k a year incomes it's all good to them.

Like this you mean https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...RW9ilrw5UeoHFA

[PerfectStorm]

Like this you mean https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...RW9ilrw5UeoHFA

Would certainly seem the experience of many in the HMRC Schemes forum - "We don't need no, edgercayshun!"

[NickNick]

They said the loan is a true loan and it cant be written off as it will cause a taxable event.

So you want to give them your money and have them loan it back to you, which you will have to repay.
Nope, can't see a problem with that at all.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

So you want to give them your money and have them loan it back to you, which you will have to repay.
Nope, can't see a problem with that at all.

You can see why HMRC's not keen can't you

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Under DOTAS, HMRC have powers to request client lists from promoters and they have been issuing warning letters to users.

The Association of Taxation Technicians | Newsdesk | HMRC Update: Issue of letters to taxpayers appearing on client lists of tax avoidance schemes

Unfortunately the new APN regime will drive promoters "underground" and few, if any, will register schemes anymore.

This is going to make it harder for HMRC to proactively engage with users.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Under DOTAS, HMRC have powers to request client lists from promoters and they have been issuing warning letters to users.

The Association of Taxation Technicians | Newsdesk | HMRC Update: Issue of letters to taxpayers appearing on client lists of tax avoidance schemes

Unfortunately the new APN regime will drive promoters "underground" and few, if any, will register schemes anymore.

This is going to make it harder for HMRC to proactively engage with users.

What do you think the answer is on all this DR?

[jbryce]

What do you think the answer is on all this DR?

• HMG should go after the promoters and forensically look for evidence of Fraud.
• HMRC should actually use the GAAR against those schemes that fall outside DOTAS.
• They should get rid of the grandfathering clause that allows some schemes to bypass DOTAS. Although, in fairness, they are planning to change the law on this.