Umbrella refuses to take into account my claim and refers me to P87 - anyone can help

**LisaContractorUmbrella** · 12 December 2014, 08:03

An umbrella company, as with any other employer, can only reimburse expenses that are incurred by their employees during their employment so they have taken the correct position. A P87 would not be an option in this case as the form is, again, only applicable for employees and during the first 2 weeks of the contract, from what you've said, you were not employed.

**Contreras** · 12 December 2014, 08:54

Originally posted by ylang View Post

All

I have started a contract 2 weeks 1/2 ago.
...
The paperwork was only finalised end of last week.
...
Before starting to work I called the umbrella and asked them if I could start without the paperwork being finalised and claim everything after. They told me I could do that and claim all after. Now they are refusing to accept my expenses.

Ask the umbrella specifically who should you enter as your employer on the P87.

Have you been paid salary for the initial 2 weeks, by the umbrella?

Arguably you were an employee if paid salary and having had prior discussion about it.

If they come back and stay to put them as employer on the P87 then I would keep a record of that email and just do it.

It would be the umbrella's PAYE error if they mark you as starting on date 'Y' but had in fact paid you since date 'X'.

**LisaContractorUmbrella** · 12 December 2014, 10:22

Originally posted by Contreras View Post

Ask the umbrella specifically who should you enter as your employer on the P87.

Have you been paid salary for the initial 2 weeks, by the umbrella?

Arguably you were an employee if paid salary and having had prior discussion about it.

If they come back and stay to put them as employer on the P87 then I would keep a record of that email and just do it.

It would be the umbrella's PAYE error if they mark you as starting on date 'Y' but had in fact paid you since date 'X'.

I would be very surprised if the umbrella company had paid the employee before the contract of employment had been signed

**Contreras** · 12 December 2014, 11:18

Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View Post

I would be very surprised if the umbrella company had paid the employee before the contract of employment had been signed

Contract of employment has no bearing on the tax position. If the OP has been paid then they would be an employee for PAYE purposes. Therefore if the umbrella won't play ball then it would be reasonable to claim via P87 (or annual self-assessment return) and put the umbrella as employer. All IMHO of course.

**LisaContractorUmbrella** · 12 December 2014, 11:35

Originally posted by Contreras View Post

Contract of employment has no bearing on the tax position. If the OP has been paid then they would be an employee for PAYE purposes. Therefore if the umbrella won't play ball then it would be reasonable to claim via P87 (or annual self-assessment return) and put the umbrella as employer. All IMHO of course.

See what you mean - fair point

**ylang** · 14 December 2014, 16:10

Umbrella refuses to take into account my claim and refers me to P87 - anyone can hel

All,

Thank you for your response.
So the umbrella says they can take pay (process PAYE etc)... from the period when I was "not" their employee but the expenses is out...
So period X to Y they are happy to process the timesheets for that period... but are not happy to process the expenses for the same period.

Cheers.

**CoolCat** · 29 January 2015, 10:13

Similar problems here.
Umbrella are taking an age to "credit check" the place I am supposed to start work soon. A leader in their field that I and the umbrella have contracted to before, who always pay their contractors on the dot. Looks like I will end up on site before the umbrella have finished messing around, and they will then bounce the initial expenses (despite the fact I am still legally an employee of theirs at the moment on holiday since my last contract finished).
Given that I am the one taking the majority of the financial risk its a joke, as is their bouncing of expenses a mistaken understanding of tax law. And their inability to get a new (returning) consultancy/agency signed up quickly is a shambles.
I really should leave them...

**LisaContractorUmbrella** · 29 January 2015, 11:34

Originally posted by CoolCat View Post

Similar problems here.
Umbrella are taking an age to "credit check" the place I am supposed to start work soon. A leader in their field that I and the umbrella have contracted to before, who always pay their contractors on the dot. Looks like I will end up on site before the umbrella have finished messing around, and they will then bounce the initial expenses (despite the fact I am still legally an employee of theirs at the moment on holiday since my last contract finished).
Given that I am the one taking the majority of the financial risk its a joke, as is their bouncing of expenses a mistaken understanding of tax law. And their inability to get a new (returning) consultancy/agency signed up quickly is a shambles.
I really should leave them...

An umbrella company has to have an assignment schedule or a B2B contract which gives the details of their workers' placements in order to be able to allow T & S expenses and also to ensure that their insurances are not invalidated; a credit check should not hold up this process and with the wonders of DueDil etc should not be time consuming

Umbrella refuses to take into account my claim and refers me to P87 - anyone can help