Agency Legislation and SD or C

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

But who actual determines the final result? If HMRC ask ClientCo is a contractor under SDC, and they say no, isn't that it determined? I mean, HMRC can't then say, well we determine it differently. And if they can what is that based on?

Not if it says in the contract that Clientco retain a right to SDC or if they ask for work schedules and find that the contractor was being told what to do and when

[gables]

Not if it says in the contract that Clientco retain a right to SDC or if they ask for work schedules and find that the contractor was being told what to do and when

If it's in the contract I get, and 'the right of' is, as I've said, sneaky. But, like I said I don't know how\what HMRC ask for, assumed it was a questionnaire and that would be it.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

If it's in the contract I get, and 'the right of' is, as I've said, sneaky. But, like I said I don't know how\what HMRC ask for, assumed it was a questionnaire and that would be it.

No, HMRC tend to be much more thorough than that if they suspect the right amount of tax hasn't been paid

[gables]

No, HMRC tend to be much more thorough than that if they suspect the right amount of tax hasn't been paid

.. and I suppose that's hassle for the Clientco and it's easier just to say yup, we had SDC

[TykeMerc]

.. and I suppose that's hassle for the Clientco and it's easier just to say yup, we had SDC

Clients will default to saying yes they have S, D OR C, they simply won't risk being dragged into IR35 cases. Client management staff will not be comfortable declaring they're not in charge of the expensive resource either.

[GB9]

I reiterate that you would be surprised how many clients don't want contractors on their books.

For basic support roles where resources needs to be moved from one area to another on a daily basis, then yes. But for the specialist roles, I can't see why they would.

I've mentioned before one client that was sued by a contractor when they ended his contract after 15 years. After that they went out of their way to ensure contractors were seen as non employees. It would take a significant policy change to reverse that approach.

[BoredBloke]

Contractors get used to fill project roles where specialist skills are needed. The client doesn't want those skills in house simply because they don't have a day to day need for them. I think if you asked any contractor they would be quite happy to be seen as non-employees.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Contractors get used to fill project roles where specialist skills are needed. The client doesn't want those skills in house simply because they don't have a day to day need for them. I think if you asked any contractor they would be quite happy to be seen as non-employees.

I think you're absolutely right and this is what we can't seem to get through to the powers that be - the politicians seem to think that it's in everyone's interests for contractors to become employees but that's simply not the case. What they do need to address is the number of workers who were employees who have been forced into working through PSC's or umbrella who really shouldn't be. The problem we have is making the distinction between the two in a way that the politicians will understand.

[GB9]

Or do they understand but have another motive.

Having just read that there are 4 new ways to bring non EU IT workers into the country, it seems more like a wage restraint exercise than anything else.

[TykeMerc]

The problem we have is making the distinction between the two in a way that the politicians will understand.

As I know you're aware that's the really tricky bit. Not only does that require pushing a thicker than pig excrement single braincelled politician into comprehension, but it requires overcoming their own political interest, namely raising taxes on the quiet and "tackling avoidance" in public.
Avoidance is great press and throw in knobbling employers exploiting the low paid it's even better.
Contractors to them are the HP. IBM, ATOS, CapGemini, Crapita, WiPro, Fujitsu's of the world, the fact that those companies tend to staff their projects with people that will be shafted by the proposals isn't even on their radars.