Freelance Limited Company (FLC) offering from IPSE

[Lightwave]

I'm merely concerned about being treated equally to my contemporaries / competitors... The permanent consultants at any blue chip consultancy....

You are of course free to apply for a job with said big consultancy.

It's a trap to compare their man hour rate with your contracting rate, their bods don't get paid half of it, any more than the apprentoid who changes the oil in your Merc gets £60 an hour.
When I started as a graduate with a big defence co, I got paid £8k a year and they charged my time to the MoD for about £30 an hour.
Plus ca change....

[MrMarkyMark]

your two quotes are from two different people (i only wrote the first one)

I realised that, you are both in engineering. You said in that industry you got rate *2, Lightspeed suggested contract rates were 20% extra on top of perm.
Which is it?

contractors cost my engineering clientco more than their perm staff (day for day),

You have those numbers, of course .

My father used to employ people and said that full time people cost 2* what you actually paid them. This was in the building industry, btw.

I'm merely concerned about being treated equally to my contemporaries / competitors... The permanent consultants at any blue chip consultancy....

This.

But being freelance has inherent risks which should be rewarded - is a permie going to go unpaid for six months because they have no role to go to? No. Is a permie going to get redundancy pay, sick pay, maternity pay, paternity pay, paid holiday, any other myriad of benefits? Yes.

This is one thing pr1 fails to acknowledge, even though I gave him my own real world example, here:-

http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...-permie-4.html

[eek]

You are of course free to apply for a job with said big consultancy.

It's a trap to compare their man hour rate with your contracting rate, their bods don't get paid half of it, any more than the apprentoid who changes the oil in your Merc gets £60 an hour.
When I started as a graduate with a big defence co, I got paid £8k a year and they charged my time to the MoD for about £30 an hour.
Plus ca change....

I wasn't. I could get £80k+ with one of the big firms at the moment (package would probably total £100k), I can get £60-80 an hour at the moment freelance....

The thing is that I've worked in a big consultancy and ended up with my skillset being destroyed as I fixed old crap rather than doing sexy new stuff because I knew the old crap and could fix it in hours compared to the weeks it would take others. I'm not going there again...

[pr1]

I realised that, you are both in engineering. You said in that industry you got rate *2, Lightspeed suggested contract rates were 20% extra on top of perm.
Which is it?

sounds like somewhere between the two (in my case, 2x)

You have those numbers, of course .

My father used to employ people and said that full time people cost 2* what you actually paid them. This was in the building industry, btw.

I know what clientco charge me out at (same as their permies, rates are banded), i know how much they pay myco, I know how much permie equivalent is on and their breakeven cost so yes, in my current contract i know the numbers

This is one thing pr1 fails to acknowledge, even though I gave him my own real world example, here:-

http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...-permie-4.html

yes, i read, you made your regular annual salary in 3 months then didn't work for 6 months

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

if none of you contract for the money why are you worried about paying the same tax as employees?

(spoiler - you are doing it at least partly for the money)

Contractors are not employees - that's the fundamental principal here

[mudskipper]

I refer the honourable member to my previous answer to an earlier question...

WSS

If you want to discuss with others, here's fine.

If you want to make your views known to IPSE (and I would encourage you to do so), then their forums are the place to do it. https://community.ipse.co.uk/threads...e-this.109878/ https://community.ipse.co.uk/threads...ompany.109880/

[MrMarkyMark]

I know how much permie equivalent is on and their breakeven cost so yes, in my current contract i know the numbers

So, you know PAYE, NICs and what all the other perm benefits are worth?

sounds like somewhere between the two (in my case, 2x)

As I said, my father said a perm cost twice what you pay them.
So you actually cost client co the same as a perm, or possibly ,even less?

yes, i read, you made your regular annual salary in 3 months then didn't work for 6 months

Not by choice.

This is called risk.

This is, amongst other reasons, why we should be paid more.

[Lightwave]

Contractors are not employees - that's the fundamental principal here

Since 'contractor' is an undefined term that IPSE doesn't use much, that's not ever so helpful really.
The problem is umbrella companies, pimps and other Klingons blurring the lines between consultants, contractors and agency scrotes.

It's 'principle' btw.

[Lightwave]

.....
This is called risk.

This is why, amongst other reasons, why we should be paid more

I don't hold with the obsession with 'reward for risk'.
We get rewarded for delivering value to the client.

[LondonManc]

I don't hold with the obsession with 'reward for risk'.
We get rewarded for delivering value to the client.

I'm very pleased for you. He stated that was one of several reasons.

Permies also get rewarded for delivering value to their employee. They also get other benefits that mitigate against risk.

We're dealing B2B so there is more risk involved.

Reward for risk happens globally.