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12V inverter.

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    12V inverter.

    Not to do with contracting or even computers, but the expertise on here is interesting sometimes.

    Here's my requirement: I want to operate a 240V fridge from 12V. Actually it will be a 240V freezer used as a fridge: therefore I need to get an appropriate thermostat, and use an inverter. Keeping the power consumption down is the main point, so I won't keep the inverter on all the time. The ensemble must run unattended.

    I'll put aside the question of the thermostat for the moment (use a fridge thermostat, or an electronic one?) because it may be influenced by the other question: how do I power up the inverter only when needed? Question: is it necessary to give the inverter some time (e.g. 1 or 2 seconds) before switching on the fridge? If so, what's a good way to do it?

    1. Just spring for a demand-sensing inverter. They cost more but the problem is solved.

    2. "you can do anything if you use enough relays". Thermostat provides a 12V signal. Apply it to a relay that switches on 12V power to the inverter. Also apply it to a relay that switches the 240V from the inverter to the fridge: but delay this switch-on. Simple method: small resistor in series with relay coil, sodding great capacitor across it. Problem: that will keep the fridge load on after the inverter supply is off. Is that a problem? Fix it by disconnecting the capacitor with a spare set on NC contacts on the relay (and discharging it slowly with a resistor across it, so that it doesn't buzz the relay when power goes off and the contacts get closed again).

    3. "the 555, glue of the universe". Monostable to delay make for the 2nd relay.

    4. Both of those switch off the fridge at the same time as the inverter, at best. Would it be better to switch off the fridge first, then the inverter? Maybe I could re-use the capacitor in no. 2 to hold the inverter's relay on for 1 or 2 seconds? But I think that needs another relay.....
    Step outside posh boy

    #2
    Zeity!! This one's got your name all over it
    ǝןqqıʍ

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      #3
      You can buy time delay relays. They don't switch until a few seconds after the coil voltage is applied.

      Would that be a simple solution?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by DimPrawn View Post
        You can buy time delay relays. They don't switch until a few seconds after the coil voltage is applied.

        Would that be a simple solution?
        Sure would. I have only found them in the US, but if I can get one here, that'll do.

        Mind you, relays are fun

        Maybe even just a 240V-coil relay, wouldn't make until the inverter was giving full output?
        Step outside posh boy

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          #5
          http://uk.farnell.com/magnecraft/tdr...lay/dp/1655916

          Comment


            #6
            On the homebrew newsgroups this question is their equivalent of our "How do I get SC?"

            It is very common to convert an old freezer into a lager (for storing it as part of the brewing ageing process, not for keeping bottles in) fridge.

            They'll drill holes, fit new thermostats, put timers on, and wire them up to all manner of sources.

            You can even buy ready-made kits.

            Start here:
            http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...tryGB&aq=f&oq=
            Last edited by RichardCranium; 17 November 2009, 10:40. Reason: http://The link wasn't recognised.com
            My all-time favourite Dilbert cartoon, this is: BTW, a Dumpster is a brand of skip, I think.

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              #7
              Originally posted by RichardCranium View Post
              On the homebrew newsgroups this question is their equivalent of our "How do I get SC?"

              It is very common to convert an old freezer into a lager (for storing it as part of the brewing ageing process, not for keeping bottles in) fridge.
              I could easily get distracted here.
              Step outside posh boy

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                #8
                Originally posted by Tarquin Farquhar View Post
                I could easily get distracted here.
                Well, what are you up to then? Storing body parts?
                My all-time favourite Dilbert cartoon, this is: BTW, a Dumpster is a brand of skip, I think.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by RichardCranium View Post
                  Well, what are you up to then? Storing body parts?
                  Looking at off-grid. A chest freezer has great insulation compared to a fridge, it actually uses less power staying at -18C than a fridge does for 4C. The chest design minimises exchange of cooled air. If I can keep the power consumption down to the minimum, it should be able to be run from a battery charged by a small solar panel.
                  Step outside posh boy

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by zeitghost
                    What's the size of the motor?

                    Generally you have to size the panel & battery on the amount of sunlight in December. Which ain't generally a great deal.

                    However, since it's a fridge, then maybe it's not quite so bad.

                    The other thing is sizing the inverter to cope with the startup demands of the motor.

                    Which tend to be rather larger than its demand once it's up & running.
                    I did a test: I happen to have a 600W inverter, 1500W peak. Connected a fridge-freezer, which is 330W on cooling cycle. No problems.

                    But the inverter idle current is pretty disastrous for something that isn't doing anything, so it absolutely has to go off when not refrigerating.

                    I have read suggestions of a 90-second duty cycle per hour for a chest fridge, giving energy demand of 100 Wh per day. That might just make it on an 18W panel, though a 28W would add spare. Alternatively, a full 100Ah battery should last it a week between full charges (assuming occasional generator running).

                    What I also don't know includes: how would different hysteresis (within the constraints of food - and beer - refrigeration) affect energy usage? And what would be the safe power-out time for a freezer used as a fridge? I suspect it would be a lot longer than for either a normal fridge (poor insulation) or a normal freezer (v. low temps).

                    Nor how much the energy demand would drop in colder/darker seasons: would colder = less demand = darker ok?
                    Last edited by Tarquin Farquhar; 17 November 2009, 14:37.
                    Step outside posh boy

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