Reply to: Dispensations

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Unless you're Vodaphone

good point, well made

[amcdonald]

Unfortunately HMRC are not known for making agreements with anyone, special or otherwise I think if you asked for proof you would be sent a copy of their dispensation

Unless you're Vodaphone

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Got an email from them yesterday saying as of a few weeks they will be following the HMR&C benchmark rates and have dropped their 'special deal'

Problem solved then

[mikedarv]

It sounds as though your umbrella company has applied scale rates but the amounts that you have given are not those published within the benchmark scale rates from HMR&C HM Revenue & Customs: Revenue & Customs Brief 24/09

Got an email from them yesterday saying as of a few weeks they will be following the HMR&C benchmark rates and have dropped their 'special deal'

[mikedarv]

There isn't anywhere for me to input the actual lunch amount so a £2 sandwich goes down as the full £7 dispensation amount.

For any potential investigation purposes would I be better just not ticking the box at all?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

They say they have a 'special agreement' with HMRC

Unfortunately HMRC are not known for making agreements with anyone, special or otherwise I think if you asked for proof you would be sent a copy of their dispensation

[mikedarv]

It sounds as though your umbrella company has applied scale rates but the amounts that you have given are not those published within the benchmark scale rates from HMR&C HM Revenue & Customs: Revenue & Customs Brief 24/09

They say they have a 'special agreement' with HMRC

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

It sounds as though your umbrella company has applied scale rates but the amounts that you have given are not those published within the benchmark scale rates from HMR&C HM Revenue & Customs: Revenue & Customs Brief 24/09

[mikedarv]

Submitting my timesheet to my brolly online it just has a tick box for any breakfast £7/lunch £8 claimed. So if I spent £3 for lunch it still goes on the system as £8 claimed.

As there isn’t any option to change the actual amount claimed could this prove to be a problem down the line should I get investigated?

[The Wikir Man]

I am a bit surprised by this. I have a small stake in a software development company. We have an approved daily dispensation of £40 (excluding accomodation) for employees when they have to travel outside town. I am not aware of any advice that we have given our employees to retain their receipts. Are we in breach then?

Do you have a dispensation, or is it a scale rate agreement with HMRC? A dispensation just means that if it is a genuine expense, then it does not need to be declared on a tax return and then reclaimed. If it's a scale rate agreement then it's completely different. I have a dispensation for my company for subsistence and accommodation with no limit on it - that doesn't mean that I can claim an unlimited amount without needing receipts.

I wouldn't say that you are in breach by not telling your employees not to keep their receipts, but if you have explicitly told them that they don't need receipts, then expect to have some fairly pissed off employees if they are ever audited and haven't got the receipts because you told them they didn't need them.

Also, even if we need employees to submit expenses, we dont need P11Ds. P11Ds are only needed for company houses, company cars etc for which the company need to pay the tax.

No, they don't. P11Ds for employees need to declare any benefits in kind, for example

• Assets transferred to employees or made available for employee use
• Payments made on behalf of the employee
• living accommodation
• mileage
• cars / fuel
• interest free and low-interest loans
• medical insurance
• relocation expenses
• subscriptions
• educational assistance
• childcare
• home phone use
• entertainment

(Note - that list may or may not be exhaustive). I'd suggest that you / your accountant / whoever is running the business needs to read up on what the dispensation covers, what needs to be declared on the P11D, etc. and makes sure that this is communicated clearly to your employees.

[malvolio]

I am a bit surprised by this. I have a small stake in a software development company. We have an approved daily dispensation of £40 (excluding accomodation) for employees when they have to travel outside town. I am not aware of any advice that we have given our employees to retain their receipts. Are we in breach then?

Also, even if we need employees to submit expenses, we dont need P11Ds. P11Ds are only needed for company houses, company cars etc for which the company need to pay the tax.

Oh dear...

The dispensation means YourCo does not need receipts to prove the P11D. It does not mean your employees don't have to provide an audit trail for the own SA declarations, nor does it mean that they can claim money they haven't spent. If you choose to reward them a flat £40 for trips outside town, that's fine; but it doesn't mean some or all of it is not in fact a BIK. I suggest you talk to your accountant.

[AnthonyQuinn]

Hi Everyone,

All umbrella companies have dispensations - if we didn't we would spend all our time filling in forms for the Inland Revenue Normally when expenses are paid the accountant is required to complete a P11D; a dispensation just means that this will not be necessary for those expenses which it covers.

An umbrella company's dispensation does not dictate what expenses you can or cannot claim. It is merely a list of expenses that your umbrella company is not compelled to record on a P11D.

If you claim expenses you will definitely and without question need to keep receipts - a dispensation means that your umbrella company does not have to present receipts to the Inland Revenue, it does not mean that you don't need them. And it will be you that will be penalised if you falsify expense claims and not your umbrella company!

Hope this helps

I am a bit surprised by this. I have a small stake in a software development company. We have an approved daily dispensation of £40 (excluding accomodation) for employees when they have to travel outside town. I am not aware of any advice that we have given our employees to retain their receipts. Are we in breach then?

Also, even if we need employees to submit expenses, we dont need P11Ds. P11Ds are only needed for company houses, company cars etc for which the company need to pay the tax.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

You can calim the expenses based on Actuals. Dispensation is when you claim based on standard rates agreed between employer and HMRC. It doesnt stop in anyway from applying based on actuals.

It doesn't actually matter to you what the umbrella company has on its dispensation - this is purely to make their lives easier; all items listed on the dispensation can be processed without the need to file a P11D. You can only claim those expenses that you have actually incurred and you will need to keep receipts.

[[email protected]]

You can

Just about to start a contract based 2 days p/w at home and 3 days p/w in office around 100 miles away, so plan to stay 2 nights per week with parents/friends who live locally.

Was thinking I could claim on:
- travel to and from office (2 journeys per week)
- meals while away from home (3 x B, L and D)
- overnight accommodation costs (x 2 nights)

Does the fact the 1 meal per day and overnight accommodation is with friends/family influence this?

Am I completely deluded in which of the above I can legitimately claim for?

Seems I can't trust the advice of an umbrella on this

You can calim the expenses based on Actuals. Dispensation is when you claim based on standard rates agreed between employer and HMRC. It doesnt stop in anyway from applying based on actuals.

[callthecops]

Friends and Family Allowance loophole closed

Just about to start a contract based 2 days p/w at home and 3 days p/w in office around 100 miles away, so plan to stay 2 nights per week with parents/friends who live locally.

Was thinking I could claim on:
- travel to and from office (2 journeys per week)
- meals while away from home (3 x B, L and D)
- overnight accommodation costs (x 2 nights)

Does the fact the 1 meal per day and overnight accommodation is with friends/family influence this?

Am I completely deluded in which of the above I can legitimately claim for?

Seems I can't trust the advice of an umbrella on this