Reply to: Any point in contracting after April 2016?

[dynamicsaxcontractor]

Possibly but there are so many challenges to this it's just not true. There has to be a market for you and it's got to work. In a vast majority of cases it won't. If you are trying to think about quick get arounds you need to think one step further to see if it's even viable.

It's definitely time to think a step ahead, if this expense thing goes ahead I probably will have to turn down at least 50% of contracts offered. A new IR35 regime on top of that and I cant continue, or see very little point in doing so. Why should I travel around the country/Europe if I earn the same, or less as I could if taking on a perm role down the closest end client?

[northernladuk]

Ok, to start I am sorry if I should have known as I haven't read everything about this.

But, what is defining if you can claim expenses or not if the new proposed rules actually goes ahead? Is it based on the number of employees, or is it anything else? I am thinking of if its possible to bypass this by setting up consultancy company together with fellow contractors and therefor being a consultancy.

Possibly but there are so many challenges to this it's just not true. There has to be a market for you and it's got to work. In a vast majority of cases it won't. If you are trying to think about quick get arounds you need to think one step further to see if it's even viable.

[dynamicsaxcontractor]

Ok, to start I am sorry if I should have known as I haven't read everything about this.

But, what is defining if you can claim expenses or not if the new proposed rules actually goes ahead? Is it based on the number of employees, or is it anything else? I am thinking of if its possible to bypass this by setting up consultancy company together with fellow contractors and therefor being a consultancy.

[MercladUK]

The answer to your question is Yes, No and Maybe...

Yes - If you are a die hard contractor, never ever go permie and are not up for making a reasonable decision when you have all the facts.
No - If you are a lilly livered bedwetter and don't want the hassle of trying to understand the current situation armed with all the facts.
Maybe - If you are a seasoned contractor and are willing to wait until we actually have some facts rather than make knee jerk assumptions based on consultation documents and no hard facts...

Which is right for you?

Jeez

the question was based on what we know now, not a knee jerk reaction.

Lighten up or count to 10 before posting please.

[Ticktock]

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

There are also unknown knowns, but not a lot of people know that. [/Michael Caine mode]

For me, this way of working is mostly about avoiding performance plans, annual reviews, 360s, the boredom of being in one place for too long, the knowledge that even if I hate everyone I work with / hate the project then it's only for (normally) 3 months and then I'm out of there.

I do need a higher rate - partly, yes I am worth it, but partly because the nature of what I do means I will be in and out of companies all of the time. There is no long-term need for someone like me in most businesses, and so I run a constant risk of bench time which I need to compensate for. As long as I can pay the bills and I'm at least as well off as a permie (taking into account bench time, expenses, etc) then I will work this way.

[HarryCodLife]

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

[Evil Hangover]

No

Next.

+ 1

Any point in breathing after April 2016 ?

If you are good at what you do, you should be able to figure this out like a grown up.

Good opportunity to thin the herd of the "ubiquitous I expect to get paid a lot of money because I deserve it and I'm like really good". Yeah right.

[Gordon Ice]

Well, that's pretty simple to sort out isn't it? A contract of employment and we pay both of us more than the minimum wage. I've had three accountants tell me that's perfectly above board. Obviously things may change, but we, as contractors, have always found a way around things before, I'd expect a similar way to be found this time.

We should just wait for the proposal though, I suppose it's possible for them to just leave the whole thing alone ? He asks hopefully!

If it's a simple as "number of employees" I'll be employing the entire family on zero hours contracts

It's all speculation at the moment and it's really to take a doom and gloom view.. we (Contractors) will prevail!

[TykeMerc]

Indeed, there won't be many; if any; clients willing to deal with multiple suppliers when they're used to dealing with one or two agencies and paying a couple of times a year.
The client-agent business model works well for the clients, they've no motivation to change it at present, so long as they can get contractor resource that won't change.

[LondonManc]

Which varies from how most of us get paid in the Agent relationship to what material extent?

If you think that the Agents will heavily modify their entire working practices an business models to accommodate the contractors that dislike the new legislation then you're barking, they will just refuse to deal with anyone trying to be outside the new IR35 and T&S rules.

It won't - it was someone else that suggested we'd pay the agents. I'm saying that, based on what my son has done on TV, it doesn't work that way. The money still gets to the agent first, rather than us paying the agents once we've been paid.

Along the lines of what you've said, I can't see ClientCos setting up payment mechanisms to each Contractor Ltd either when it's currently one figure/transaction to agentco.

[TykeMerc]

However, it would put the power in your hands. Quite like the idea of it myself. Unfortunately that's not how it works in entertainment where the production company sends the agency the money then you eventually get a cheque from the agent

Which varies from how most of us get paid in the Agent relationship to what material extent?

If you think that the Agents will heavily modify their entire working practices an business models to accommodate the contractors that dislike the new legislation then you're barking, they will just refuse to deal with anyone trying to be outside the new IR35 and T&S rules.

[LondonManc]

That would be interesting... It's one thing to have an agent taking a % behind the scenes where I can remain happily oblivious to what they are getting for my work, but paying them directly even though it would make no financial difference to what I end up taking feels like it would be somewhat painful.

However, it would put the power in your hands. Quite like the idea of it myself. Unfortunately that's not how it works in entertainment where the production company sends the agency the money then you eventually get a cheque from the agent

[sartois]

Or contractor pays recruiter, as in the entertainment business (currently not legal atm).

That would be interesting... It's one thing to have an agent taking a % behind the scenes where I can remain happily oblivious to what they are getting for my work, but paying them directly even though it would make no financial difference to what I end up taking feels like it would be somewhat painful.

[curtis]

Earning more money will be primary for most but for me yes it will be frustrating as I would rather be earning more than less but I always said from the start even if I earnt the same or even a less contracting I would still do it.

For me its a lifestyle choice, one thing is I like to know I can have a break after a contract if I want to and although through choice I have only done this a few times so far in a few years I hope to take more time off inbetween and get a better work/life balance I would not get this if I left contracting so I would stay contracting regardless.

[MarkT]

Sadly that one won't wash as "employing" an officer and shareholder without a contract of employment and not paying minimum wage isn't what is meant by the conventional use of the word employed.

Well, that's pretty simple to sort out isn't it? A contract of employment and we pay both of us more than the minimum wage. I've had three accountants tell me that's perfectly above board. Obviously things may change, but we, as contractors, have always found a way around things before, I'd expect a similar way to be found this time.

We should just wait for the proposal though, I suppose it's possible for them to just leave the whole thing alone ? He asks hopefully!