C# Developer, best learning route?

[doodab]

Or maybe it's because they're busy working.

It's not that easy to teach someone how to code, well I suppose someone could teach but it would take lots of time. It's not like you can spend 5 minutes with someone every week and they're an expert after a couple of months.

I've had this conversation with previous employers. Yes I can document what I've done but no I can't teach him C and the solaris API, he's gonna have to do some background reading.

It's different if you're hired to train of course, and I've never minded sharing my expertise with someone who makes an effort to learn stuff by themselves. That can be quite rewarding as you watch them come on and generally after a while you end up with someone who can take some of the load off you.

[kingcook]

I think it's mainly because of the introverted techy stereotype, where most developers are more comfortable in front of an IDE than talking to someone.

Or maybe it's because they're busy working.

It's not that easy to teach someone how to code, well I suppose someone could teach but it would take lots of time. It's not like you can spend 5 minutes with someone every week and they're an expert after a couple of months.

[Hardgrafter]

Thanks for all your help.

[Hardgrafter]

Thanks all. News that my boss may take on an mvvm contractor for a month or so & I can sit with them asking a million questions for 8 hours a day which I'm sure they'll love...

Will be beneficial for me though

I'm also going to take a MS certification course at my local college.

Won't be going anywhere for another year or so as I don't think I could match my salary anywhere else atm.

[BlueSharp]

I started out with in a similar situation as you, wait to get a whole one year of experience under your belt before you do anything as any shorter could look bad on your CV. Then look for another junior role that can expose you more to parts of the framework that you want to specialise in, such as web or forms.

[Scratch It]

Im in a similar position, though possibly a little further down the road. I chose to use certifications as a guide to my learning and im happy with that (though dont expect future employers to value them). I found them useful in learning more obscure areas of my profession which does help my work.

[d000hg]

Could your company hire another developer? Then you can learn from them without having to leave!

[Hardgrafter]

Anyway, in answer to the OP, I second working with good developers as the best way to learn. Read their code and make sure you understand it. If you don't, go and learn about what they're doing until you do understand it.

You say some of the unit testing presentation went over your head. You might be jumping too far ahead so you need to fill in the gap between what you do understand and the new stuff that you don't. Next time that happens, make a note of what it is that you don't understand and go and learn that until you do understand. If that stuff makes no sense, then research it until eventually you've got back to the stuff you do understand.

Thanks guys. Yes just sitting at the presentation & being able to watch an experienced developer write code & explain was a great help., I just don't get exposed to that at work.

I could follow the majority of the presentation but you're right, there is a significant knowledge gap that hopefully will be filled with time, experience and of course hard work. Seems to be a big jump between writing basic console applications using the fundamentals and real world solutions using design patterns, ORM frameworks etc etc.

[Bunk]

When I started as a developer I was amazed at how little people were willing to help, support, train, mentor etc, and most development teams I've ever experienced since have been the same. People just generally keep their head down and get on with it leaving you with Google, books, YouTube etc.

I think it's mainly because of the introverted techy stereotype, where most developers are more comfortable in front of an IDE than talking to someone.

What does help is working in a really good development team where you learn about stuff like code quality, TDD and good software design - though more by osmosis as opposed to people specifically supporting you. If you get a chance to pair with good people then that can be a massive boost.

If you are happy with your pay and circumstance then I might consider staying where I was a little longer and continue with the learning, user groups etc, then try to push for a better job than you might be able to land today.

Part of the problem is similar to what you see on CUK. People just don't bother to try to figure something out themselves, they immediately resort to saying "do my work for me", at least asking for it to spelt out. I worked with a pretty clueless developer recently, no idea why clientco hired him. I did my best to help him but I kept getting frustrated when his default response to encountering a new problem was to turn to me and say "what do I do?". I'd ask him what he'd tried and he'd shrug and say "nothing, don't know what to do". If he's not prepared to do any research himself and try to learn, why should I bother?

Anyway, in answer to the OP, I second working with good developers as the best way to learn. Read their code and make sure you understand it. If you don't, go and learn about what they're doing until you do understand it.

You say some of the unit testing presentation went over your head. You might be jumping too far ahead so you need to fill in the gap between what you do understand and the new stuff that you don't. Next time that happens, make a note of what it is that you don't understand and go and learn that until you do understand. If that stuff makes no sense, then research it until eventually you've got back to the stuff you do understand.

[Kanye]

When I started as a developer I was amazed at how little people were willing to help, support, train, mentor etc, and most development teams I've ever experienced since have been the same. People just generally keep their head down and get on with it leaving you with Google, books, YouTube etc.

I think it's mainly because of the introverted techy stereotype, where most developers are more comfortable in front of an IDE than talking to someone.

What does help is working in a really good development team where you learn about stuff like code quality, TDD and good software design - though more by osmosis as opposed to people specifically supporting you. If you get a chance to pair with good people then that can be a massive boost.

If you are happy with your pay and circumstance then I might consider staying where I was a little longer and continue with the learning, user groups etc, then try to push for a better job than you might be able to land today.

[doodab]

I'd consider joining the acm. It's $99 a year, you'll get access to a lot of safari and books 24x7 books that can be life savers as well as making a good learning resource. They have skillsoft courses as well, not really got into those myself though.

I'm also self taught, mostly from books, manuals and reading open source code. You can learn a lot from that as well.

[Hardgrafter]

Many areas have user groups. Join them and go to presentations. Build stuff in your spare time. Come with an idea, and try and build it.

Great, thanks for your input. I am already attending the local .NET user group presentations. The last presentation was on unit testing and tbh a lot of it went over my head but I suppose that's
normal for someone with my limited experience and any little bits I can pick up along the way all adds up over time.

[jmo21]

My question is, Would I be better off working within a team of more experienced developers or is the situation I'm in a good one for pushing on and continuing to learn?

Yes, that probably would be better for your current situation, but it sounds like you're making a good go of it. Pluralsite is well regarded here and is a great learning resource. Use Stackoverflow.com for the niggly code issues.

Your lack of experience may hold you back, but if you don't apply for other jobs, you have zero chance of getting them.

Many areas have user groups. Join them and go to presentations. Build stuff in your spare time. Come with an idea, and try and build it.

[Hardgrafter]

Hi all,

1 year ago I decided to retrain as a dev following a career in professional sport. With no previous programming experience I worked hard at night school etc. learning the basics and managed to land a permie job as a junior C#.NET dev. My goal in a few years time is to become a C#.NET contractor.

The company I work for is very small, IT consists of me and my boss (a SQL dev). We have a couple of internal CRUD applications which were written in Windows Forms & most recently WPF MVVM
by previous contractors.

Most of my workload consists of adding functionality, fixing bugs etc. to these existing code bases and in 6 months I have learnt a lot. However I often find myself in a position where I'm faced with a problem and have no one to turn to for mentoring or advice. For example, I'm currently dealing with a WPF MVVM application and keep finding myself out of my depth and getting stuck for several hours on what should be simple problems. My boss is not a C# dev and doesn't have experience in OOP. He also doesn't have time to mentor me much with SQL Server.

This environment has resulted in me being almost completely self taught, I have time to do a lot of online tutorials, PluralSight etc but on the flip side I don't get any real support with my learning.

My question is, Would I be better off working within a team of more experienced developers or is the situation I'm in a good one for pushing on and continuing to learn?

Thanks all