Reply to: Office 2010

[2BIT]

The advantage of the ribbon is that nothing is hidden in a pull down menu!

Surely it doesn't display every menu option in the ribbon?

[d000hg]

Really?

So the ribbon is A Cunning Plan to program us all with keyboard shortcuts.

Amazing.

How did you connect things to get that conclusion? Read below...

Memories of that Toshiba laptop with the stick pointer thing in the middle of the keyboard.

I became extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts while I had that.

This is a great example what I meant... effectively being forced to use things a new way leads to ultimately being more proficient than if you had stuck with the way you already knew. You only find the better way when pushed.
It's akin to being stuck in a local minima, in science... you have to invest a little energy to reap a greater reward.

[Sysman]

yeah you can still do that
Hit the alt button, then a letter corresponding to the tab, then the letter (or two letter sequence) corresponding to the menu item

That falls into a heap when you use different languages though (and if I remember correctly the menu order can be different). Added to that the German version was inconsistent across products (e.g. Notepad and the DOS editor back in the NT4 / Win98 era had different shortcuts for exiting).

I never tried it, but according to my then boss, Excel macros written in the German version wouldn't work in the English version and vice versa. That was a real pain.

The advantage of the ribbon is that nothing is hidden in a pull down menu!

Thanks. I didn't realise that.

[2BIT]

I have no idea, I didn't use them before

me neither but if they did change them then I must say they are f@ckin' idiots

[Spacecadet]

if they are the same combinations as before then cool

I have no idea, I didn't use them before

[2BIT]

yeah you can still do that
Hit the alt button, then a letter corresponding to the tab, then the number corresponding to the menu item

if they are the same combinations as before then cool

[Spacecadet]

well this guy would hit two or three shortcuts in quick succession to goto a menu and then into a sub-menu and choose his selection

yeah you can still do that
Hit the alt button, then a letter corresponding to the tab, then the letter (or two letter sequence) corresponding to the menu item

to do text to columns without a mouse
select the data you want splitting into columns, if its an entire column then use the crtl+space shortcut
then press alt, a, e
then you can navigate round the pop up control using tab as normal

it was honestly quite impressive to watch as he seemed to know how to get to any menu option quicker than I could navigate to it with a mouse

The advantage of the ribbon is that nothing is hidden in a pull down menu!

[2BIT]

The nav shortcuts being?

well this guy would hit two or three shortcuts in quick succession to goto a menu and then into a sub-menu and choose his selection

it was honestly quite impressive to watch as he seemed to know how to get to any menu option quicker than I could navigate to it with a mouse

[Spacecadet]

so the nav shortcuts work too? fair enough maybe I remembered it wrong

The nav shortcuts being?

[2BIT]

Memories of that Toshiba laptop with the stick pointer thing in the middle of the keyboard.

truly horrible, made any kind of mouse action a chore! that said people use them, I know a guy who writes music on his laptop without a mouse, is so used to it doesn't need to change

all the old keyboard shortcuts still seem to work... at least the ones that I use

so the nav shortcuts work too? fair enough maybe I remembered it wrong

I never had to receive training to learn Office before or after the ribbon. Did you? Are you really saying you're not able to figure it out?
Where is your analytic evidence to support this? Are you simply extrapolating from your experience?You prove my point. Keyboard shortcuts CAN be very efficient but (the majority of) users won't invest time up-front for longer-term time saving. Unless you FORCE them to use shortcuts, in which case they will quickly learn and end up more productive. Which is what MS did with the ribbon.

I think the key word here is FORCE, Apple force you to do things and that is more than fine for the small percentage that use macs, if Microsoft want to force you to change your working style then they have to expect back-lash, different users have different requirements so forcing them to adopt a lowest-common denominator interface with no option to set back is going to invite criticism when the other benefits of a new O/S or Office suite aren't so obvious

[Spacecadet]

Memories of that Toshiba laptop with the stick pointer thing in the middle of the keyboard.

I became extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts while I had that.

I sometimes think that MS have a fixation about the mouse, and have read comments about this coming back to bite them in the transition to touchpad style devices.

all the old keyboard shortcuts still seem to work... at least the ones that I use

[Sysman]

i used to work with a guy who had rain-man like abilities with excel keyboard shortcuts- never saw him using a mouse, now I can't be sure but seem to remember him bemoaning the fact that his keyboard shortcuts no longer worked

Memories of that Toshiba laptop with the stick pointer thing in the middle of the keyboard.

I became extremely proficient with keyboard shortcuts while I had that.

I sometimes think that MS have a fixation about the mouse, and have read comments about this coming back to bite them in the transition to touchpad style devices.

[d000hg]

Office 2007 and 2010 totally break that pattern - which is insane considering amount of training was put into the thing, whole generation grown up on it, yet they seem to think they are in position to force everyone to use this tulipy ribbon.

I never had to receive training to learn Office before or after the ribbon. Did you? Are you really saying you're not able to figure it out?

It sure does NOT make people work faster

Where is your analytic evidence to support this? Are you simply extrapolating from your experience?

keyboard shortcuts do, teach those ffs

You prove my point. Keyboard shortcuts CAN be very efficient but (the majority of) users won't invest time up-front for longer-term time saving. Unless you FORCE them to use shortcuts, in which case they will quickly learn and end up more productive. Which is what MS did with the ribbon.

[2BIT]

Office 2007 and 2010 totally break that pattern - which is insane considering amount of training was put into the thing, whole generation grown up on it, yet they seem to think they are in position to force everyone to use this tulipy ribbon. It sure does NOT make people work faster - keyboard shortcuts do, teach those ffs.

Alt-F4.

i used to work with a guy who had rain-man like abilities with excel keyboard shortcuts- never saw him using a mouse, now I can't be sure but seem to remember him bemoaning the fact that his keyboard shortcuts no longer worked

[AtW]

So if 91% of people didn't give a tulip you would make the change and alienate the other 9%. Extrapolate that to 10 million users, thats, ooh, nearly a million pissed off customers.

It all depends on cost benefit analysis - if we have 10 mln users paying combined total of billions then no way I'd want to piss them off by forcing new interface - I'd always keep classic, even if it's off by default. That was more or less policy of Microsoft or any sensible company for many years - I can get old Windows 95 look in Windows XP, and even Windows 7 is very close to it (not perfect but ok-ish).

Office 2007 and 2010 totally break that pattern - which is insane considering amount of training was put into the thing, whole generation grown up on it, yet they seem to think they are in position to force everyone to use this tulipy ribbon. It sure does NOT make people work faster - keyboard shortcuts do, teach those ffs.

Alt-F4.