Reply to: Anyone done Microsoft MCSD or similar recently

[thunderlizard]

You are absolutely right. The 4.0 exams have been out since June last year, and right now out of the 7 possible MCPD exams, there are only books out for 2 of them - both the "MCTS self-paced training" series.

And yes, they have stopped publishing the stats. because:

Microsoft Learning decided that presenting the number of people for each certification was of diminishing value given the sheer size of the numbers for each certification. In some cases it was at risk undermining the value of the certification as people felt like too many people had it :-) (we grant over two million certifications a year!).

source: How many MCTS and MCITP's are certified worlwide

[escapeUK]

Ive been thinking it might be nice to get MCPD 2008, and then do the upgrade exam to get the 2010. Fleshes out the cv.

Can you believe it, there is no book for the exam 070-563.

The last time I did the MCSD exams there were loads of different books to choose from. Fast forward a decade, now there is only 1 book if you are lucky.

Is there no money in selling these now days? There used to be a website that showed how many people in the world were MCSE, MCP etc. I wonder what happened to that?

[Durbs]

I'm coming to the conclusion now that you can use the books for the .NET 3.5 exams to prepare for the 4.0 exams, as long as you keep an eye on the syllabus and check for any relevant new stuff.

It'll probably cover the bulk but having recently done exam 70-515 it seemed the bulk of the questions were on the newer stuff and there wasn't much 'core' .NET stuff. Most of it was nasty JQuery syntax questions, ajax stuff and MVC stuff. Was not an easy one IMO. Passed it though

[thunderlizard]

I'm coming to the conclusion now that you can use the books for the .NET 3.5 exams to prepare for the 4.0 exams, as long as you keep an eye on the syllabus and check for any relevant new stuff.

[escapeUK]

However it looks like my only option now is the official Microsoft book, which (a) hasn't been released yet and (b) is sure to read as dull as dishwater:

Surely not..!

Yeah, ive been waiting for the books all year. The annoying thing is there will probably be Visual Studio 2012 along before I can get the MCPD in the last one. You do have to wonder why we bother sometimes.

This is the main reason Ive not bothered since MCSD VB6, but I have all the MCSE versions from NT - 2008.

[thunderlizard]

Book recommendations

wow, is it really 2 months ago I was on about this? I haven't done a thing about it so far, but Jan will change that.
I want to get cracking on 70-511 (Windows Applications Development with Microsoft .NET Framework 4). Anybody got any exam prep book recommendations? I prefer the dead tree option, because the one thing I learnt at uni is that learning is most effective when done lounging on a sofa with a buttered crumpet.

However it looks like my only option now is the official Microsoft book, which (a) hasn't been released yet and (b) is sure to read as dull as dishwater:
Amazon.com: MCTS Self-Paced Training Kit (Exam 70-511): Windows Application Development with Microsoft .NET Framework 4 (9780735627420): Matthew A. Stoecker: Books

Surely not..!

[thunderlizard]

Very difficult to tell whether a certification has or hasn't made the difference in winning a contract. I tend to see it as a tie-breaker: it helps to confirm you are serious about improving your skills. Well, the multi-exam MCSD does anyway. My PRINCE2 on the other hand...

[Durbs]

Should yes, but in these days of 100+ applicants per gig if someone in HR says the candidate must have MC** the agent will ignore all CV's that don't fulfil the desired requirement, he'll still be left with 30 odd CV's so it only makes his job easier.

This is true and is the only reason i'm wanting to refresh some of my certs.

A lot of the screening will be done by someone who knows absolutely nothing about the technology associated with the role, they will be passed a job spec normally with something like "MCSD preferred" and thats what they'll look for on a CV, all your AJAX and MVC stuff on your CV relevent to a role may well mean something to a technical interviewer but is no good if you never get to that point cos HR binned your CV on the first pass.

Of course it eventually comes down to actual experience but the certs will certainly do no harm and for the price of a few exams i'm happy to take a punt on the fact it may well help me out in getting my CV placed before the next blokes.

Before my current role i had my CV out and a few agents commented that my certs being 10 years old didn't look too good and may suggest that my skillset is stale or i'm not proactive in advancing my skills.

[gingerjedi]

I did a whole shed of these in my first few years working in permiedom.

All things being equal, they *may* get you a permie job over someone else at a MS gold partner as numbers help them keep gold status, which is apparently good for their business.

That being said, I would make a guess that there are more hiring managers (and I'm talking about dev here, not sure about infrastructure) who would be sceptical of someone with a load of these certs.

Experience is key, and should trump all.
If you are just starting out, then yes, maybe passing some will be useful in showing keenness to learn in the absence of years of experience.

Should yes, but in these days of 100+ applicants per gig if someone in HR says the candidate must have MC** the agent will ignore all CV's that don't fulfil the desired requirement, he'll still be left with 30 odd CV's so it only makes his job easier.

[jmo21]

I did a whole shed of these in my first few years working in permiedom.

All things being equal, they *may* get you a permie job over someone else at a MS gold partner as numbers help them keep gold status, which is apparently good for their business.

That being said, I would make a guess that there are more hiring managers (and I'm talking about dev here, not sure about infrastructure) who would be sceptical of someone with a load of these certs.

Experience is key, and should trump all.

If you are just starting out, then yes, maybe passing some will be useful in showing keenness to learn in the absence of years of experience.

[HairyArsedBloke]

Please excuse me for drifting a bit off topic.

For a business plan I have an entry about funding the certification of staff to get MC<whatever>. This is for another country who are a bit more open about their feelings regarding foreigners taking 'their' jobs. I am saying I'll provide experience and pay for the training required to bring local lads/lasses to a standard that can be useful for other local companies.

My question is: Are these certifications of any substantial use to the individual when applying for jobs, or is the benefit only marginal?

[ShandyDrinker]

Likewise I have the MCSD.Net for the .Net framework 1.1 (along with the MCDBA). While I know I learned something from the certifications, I question the longer term return on investment. I'd love to hear from anyone who actually believes these certifications are a worthwhile investment these days?

I haven't sat any MS Certs for about 5 years now and wonder whether it's worthwhile spending the time and money updating them...

[fullyautomatix]

For Visual Studio and related development technologies this PDF is useful

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...0_CertPath.pdf

[thunderlizard]

I gave up on the website in the end and emailed Microsoft. Their support people are actually pretty helpful and don't talk exclusively in marketing buzzwords.

[Durbs]

What you probably want is called MCPD (closest to the old MCSD I think):
Certified Developer | MCPD | Microsoft Certified Professional Developer

Aye, that's the puppy, i'll have one of those.