Reply to: Is C a 'good' programming language?

[VectraMan]

I guess these days, that might be one task you could still hand-write assembly... the difference being you would be hand-crafting the SSE/MMX to parallelise it, image data being friendly in this regard. It's quite a fun area to play with IMO, especially since modern compilers (some anyway) expose intrinsics to use ASM ops directly from C++.

I've done a load of stuff like that. C++ functions containing _asm statements to do the work. As you say MMX/SSE can make graphics operations run many times faster than you could ever acheive in a higher level language.

[d000hg]

At my last permie position I had to write a shed load of cleanup code to remove blemishes etc from signature image thumbnails for a building society (actually a shareholder vote for privatization).

I started out writing it in C, but as there were half a million of the brutes, which all had to be tarted up by a certain date, performance was imperative and we worked out that at the rate the code was chugging through them it would never be done in time.

So I started embedding assembler bit blitters into the code, small sections at first but of course getting more ambitious as time went on, and sure enough it started speeding up significantly.

At the same time, I was writing an Intel disassembler as a personal hobby, and so had a pretty intimate knowledge of all the prefix codes that specify a 32-bit operand etc, and I found that using these operands speeded things up even more.

In the end, the 16-bit C code went like the clappers, but was a mere shell and comprised mostly hundreds of lines of 32-bit assembler much of it hand-coded using numeric values (as the 16-bit compiler didn't support 32-bit).

When I was due to leave, to start my first contract, my magager asked the project leader about this code, and the project leader assured him it would be no problem as it was C. Although I had mentioned the assembler, he luckily had no conception of the untold horrors awaiting anyone who ventured to change it.

I guess these days, that might be one task you could still hand-write assembly... the difference being you would be hand-crafting the SSE/MMX to parallelise it, image data being friendly in this regard. It's quite a fun area to play with IMO, especially since modern compilers (some anyway) expose intrinsics to use ASM ops directly from C++.

[VectraMan]

Just found a bug:

// borked
AutoInterface<T> r(reinterpret_cast<T*>(Base::RemoveTail(), true));
// fixed
AutoInterface<T> r(reinterpret_cast<T*>(Base::RemoveTail()), true);

Spotted the difference yet?

Although this is C++, it's thanks to C's stupid comma operator that this compiles. What's passed into the reinterpret_cast is not the result of the function call, but second expression (true). It happily casts true into a T* whose value is 0x00000001 with hilarious results.

(AutoInterface's constructor has an optional second parameter, so that doesn't cause an error either).

I take it back. Tis a stupid lanugage.

[Sysman]

Mmmmmmm...

Hand coded 32 bit assembler

Mmmmmmmm....

At my first job in IT they had a clankety clank Burroughs system which unfortunately they never let me near, but they'd got good enough at it over the years to bash machine code straight onto punch cards.

[OwlHoot]

At my last permie position I had to write a shed load of cleanup code to remove blemishes etc from signature image thumbnails for a building society (actually a shareholder vote for privatization).

I started out writing it in C, but as there were half a million of the brutes, which all had to be tarted up by a certain date, performance was imperative and we worked out that at the rate the code was chugging through them it would never be done in time.

So I started embedding assembler bit blitters into the code, small sections at first but of course getting more ambitious as time went on, and sure enough it started speeding up significantly.

At the same time, I was writing an Intel disassembler as a personal hobby, and so had a pretty intimate knowledge of all the prefix codes that specify a 32-bit operand etc, and I found that using these operands speeded things up even more.

In the end, the 16-bit C code went like the clappers, but was a mere shell and comprised mostly hundreds of lines of 32-bit assembler much of it hand-coded using numeric values (as the 16-bit compiler didn't support 32-bit).

When I was due to leave, to start my first contract, my magager asked the project leader about this code, and the project leader assured him it would be no problem as it was C. Although I had mentioned the assembler, he luckily had no conception of the untold horrors awaiting anyone who ventured to change it.

[Sysman]

General. We're in Technical.

WHS.

[Zippy]

Come on gents. Surely you can agree that you use the right tool for the particular job?

Declared interest - C and Motorola assembly language programming person. A long time ago.

[RichardCranium]

Since when is that in the spirit of CUK?

General. We're in Technical.

[d000hg]

Either give it rest or abuse him by PM.

Since when is that in the spirit of CUK?

Anyhow, maybe us 2 will have to form coalitions with DP & sy01 otherwise it's just too risky... me and C will be unable to commit fully in case DP makes an opportunistic attack from the rear.

[RichardCranium]

blah

Either give it rest or abuse him by PM.

[d000hg]

It wasn't thinly veiled rudeness, my post was meant to show that not all software development is for PCs - you made an incorrect assumption and made yourself look a noddy!

Um, no. You assumed I hadn't noticed C was used a lot in embedded systems. I may even have mentioned it earlier in the thread as it happens... the point was we were derailing onto random old-school memories and you had to jump in showing how clever you were. Or that's how it seemed.

Btw, my feelings aren't hurt - it takes more than a drunken keyboard warrior to upset me.

Well that's a weight off my drink-addled mind. I could barely sleep last night worrying I'd upset some geek so much he resorted to insulting my in assembly code.

Anyway, how long shall we play this game before we and make up?

[Zippy]

Just thought I'd let you guys know. 3 Interviews in 7 days. Blown out.

Oh well, not meant to be!!!

Bugger! Sorry Churchill.

[voodooflux]

Just thought I'd let you guys know. 3 Interviews in 7 days. Blown out.

Oh well, not meant to be!!!

Ah bollocks, sorry to hear that chief

Chin up, onwards n' all that.

[Churchill]

Actually, you made the wrong assumption. I was responding to your know-it-all comment about (non)PCs/BIOS. If you're going include thinly veiled rudeness and act superior when you share knowledge, perhaps best not to bother, or at least not be surprised people call you a smartarse (do you deny it?)

Aw, your feelings are hurt. Nevermind, I'm sure it will soon blow (goats) over.

It wasn't thinly veiled rudeness, my post was meant to show that not all software development is for PCs - you made an incorrect assumption and made yourself look a c0ck!

Btw, my feelings aren't hurt - it takes more than a drunken keyboard warrior to upset me.

[d000hg]

You made the wrong assumption and also resorted to insults.

Actually, you made the wrong assumption. I was responding to your know-it-all comment about (non)PCs/BIOS. If you're going include thinly veiled rudeness and act superior when you share knowledge, perhaps best not to bother, or at least not be surprised people call you a smartarse (do you deny it?)

Your problem not mine. Also, the jibe about interviews, not big and certainly not clever.

Aw, your feelings are hurt. Nevermind, I'm sure it will soon blow (goats) over.