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Previously on "OS Wars are over, we all lost?"

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  • expat
    replied
    user -- interface -- programs -- OS -- hardware

    I don't have any problem with user (!), interface, programs, or hardware. So changing it to

    user -- interface -- programs -- emulated OS -- OS -- hardware
    wouldn't really fix anything.

    Probably the way to make everything work invisibly is dictatorial control from the top, i.e. the Apple method. So I ought to just buy a Mac and forget the Tommy Hilfiger effect.

    Leave a comment:


  • darmstadt
    replied
    Originally posted by expat View Post
    I know, but if it runs under another OS then it is just an emulator: at best an interface, not an OS. And if, say, the Linux that it runs under can't mount my PCMCIA adapter, or the Windows that it runs under has lost the ability to use a DNS, then hercules can't do it either.
    Correct but z/OS can't run on Intel due to big - little endian differences but I run z/OS on numerous Thinkpads and x236 server with no problems under Linux and UnixWare. There was another one out which allowed you to run z/OS on Itanium (Platform Solutions) but this went to court and IBM bought them this year. There was also another emulator which ran under Windows called UMX but the IP was bought by some American travel software company.

    Leave a comment:


  • expat
    replied
    Originally posted by bogeyman View Post
    Actually, z/OS is king. That's the stuff that actually makes the world run, gets your bank paymements done, gets your phone and utility bills to you, without fail.

    Your bank/utility co. may use UNIX in their branch-end stuff but the real deal at the sweaty industrial back-end is typically lots of big iron and z/OS.
    Fine. I learned to program in upper-case, 80 cols wide. If fact I still have a copy of SPF Lite on my work Windows desktop because there are some commands that you just can't find anywhere else (x all; f all ...).

    But its like a good unix installation, only more so: it only works because there is someone there full-time making it work. In a desktop I want it to work without attention: it's a tool, not a hobby in itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • expat
    replied
    Originally posted by darmstadt View Post
    Yes:

    http://www.hercules-390.org/

    http://www.funsoft.com

    I also wrote a couple of redbooks about it
    I know, but if it runs under another OS then it is just an emulator: at best an interface, not an OS. And if, say, the Linux that it runs under can't mount my PCMCIA adapter, or the Windows that it runs under has lost the ability to use a DNS, then hercules can't do it either.

    Leave a comment:


  • Moscow Mule
    replied
    Originally posted by NickFitz View Post
    It's nice that it gets the bills to us without fail.

    It would be even nicer if it knew that it had received payment rather than sending out reminders for stuff that has been paid. And if it didn't send bills to people who aren't customers. And if it didn't send out bills for £0.00 and require a payment (via another such system) of that amount. And if it actually got the bank payments done rather than losing them and telling people they've gone overdrawn and then catching up with itself and telling them they actually hadn't gone overdrawn and then have to reverse the bank charges it had applied to their account because it sincerely believed they were overdrawn. And if it didn't double-charge hundreds of thousands of transactions at Sainsbury's on a Saturday afternoon and then take four days to get things back in order.

    Apart from that, and all the rest, it is indeed wondrous
    You can't blame the os for tulipe software...

    And as for the best os? Look no further than i

    Leave a comment:


  • darmstadt
    replied
    Originally posted by expat View Post
    How about MVS on the PC?
    Yes:

    http://www.hercules-390.org/

    http://www.funsoft.com

    I also wrote a couple of redbooks about it

    Leave a comment:


  • NickFitz
    replied
    Originally posted by bogeyman View Post
    Actually, z/OS is king. That's the stuff that actually makes the world run, gets your bank paymements done, gets your phone and utility bills to you, without fail.

    Your bank/utility co. may use UNIX in their branch-end stuff but the real deal at the sweaty industrial back-end is typically lots of big iron and z/OS.
    It's nice that it gets the bills to us without fail.

    It would be even nicer if it knew that it had received payment rather than sending out reminders for stuff that has been paid. And if it didn't send bills to people who aren't customers. And if it didn't send out bills for £0.00 and require a payment (via another such system) of that amount. And if it actually got the bank payments done rather than losing them and telling people they've gone overdrawn and then catching up with itself and telling them they actually hadn't gone overdrawn and then have to reverse the bank charges it had applied to their account because it sincerely believed they were overdrawn. And if it didn't double-charge hundreds of thousands of transactions at Sainsbury's on a Saturday afternoon and then take four days to get things back in order.

    Apart from that, and all the rest, it is indeed wondrous

    Leave a comment:


  • bogeyman
    replied
    Originally posted by Platypus View Post
    Perhaps this thread should have been entitled "Desktop PC OS Wars".

    In the world away from your PC desktop (and small server), UNIX is king, like it or not.
    Actually, z/OS is king. That's the stuff that actually makes the world run, gets your bank paymements done, gets your phone and utility bills to you, without fail.

    Your bank/utility co. may use UNIX in their branch-end stuff but the real deal at the sweaty industrial back-end is typically lots of big iron and z/OS.

    Leave a comment:


  • expat
    replied
    Originally posted by ace00 View Post
    Sounds good and with in built file sharing capability would be excellent. But could you make money out of it ?
    Spot-on I guess. The three sisters that I mentioned are all defined by the money question:
    Windows is there to sell shrink-wrapped, end.
    OS X is there to sell Apple hardware.
    Linux is not there to sell.

    Leave a comment:


  • ace00
    replied
    Originally posted by bogeyman View Post
    Surely, an OS for today should be a tiny-kernal, modular, multiprocessor-aware, vastly-scaleable, web-aware, cooperative entity with extreme hardware abstraction (hardware sublimination?)
    Sounds good and with in built file sharing capability would be excellent. But could you make money out of it ?

    Leave a comment:


  • NickFitz
    replied
    Originally posted by expat View Post
    -- I dislike manufacturers who sell PCs with Windows pre-installed, and don't provide install disks or any other way of fixing the OS.

    None of that is really the OS's fault.
    That last one is entirely down to Microsoft's licensing terms - until a few years ago OEMs would provide a full Windows install disk with an OEM install key, but Microsoft changed the rules.

    Now, OEMs only get the discount that makes their machines affordable if they stick to the preinstall + recovery disk method of distribution - they have to pay Microsoft full whack (or very close to it) to provide the customer with a proper OS install disk. This adds up to £200 to the cost of the system, which is a killer if you're selling machines at £400 a pop.

    Leave a comment:


  • expat
    replied
    Originally posted by darmstadt View Post
    How about MVS on the PC?

    Leave a comment:


  • darmstadt
    replied
    Originally posted by Churchill View Post
    OpenSolaris rocks my boat.
    Now available on the mainframe!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • expat
    replied
    Originally posted by jkoder View Post
    Not really.

    If you are a PC gamer you would almost certainly choose Windows. If you were serious about audio/video/graphics then it would be a smart choice to get a Mac. Linux runs on low powered PC's and lot's of portable devices. It's free and open and this appeals to more and more people each year. I think some people like the hacking side of Linux that most people would classify as stress.

    OS software is some of the most mature, even the largest software company in the world failed to add any useful or innovative features to it's last release. Over the next ten years Linux based OS's will show more improvement than the already mature OS's offered by Apple and Windows.
    Well put.

    But my problem is not that my demands are too high, it is that (as far as PCs go) I am a pretty non-power user. I don't play games. I don't do any serious audio or video (OK I photoshop photos but I am not having any trouble with that). I don't have any devices that I would regard as exotic, nor any unusual programs. I don't develop software on my PC.

    So I expect to pay my money and then have zero problems. That is what does not happen.

    However, I suppose I should be careful not to blame the OS, or its maker, for everything. Many of my current gripes are in fact aimed elsewhere:

    -- I dislike software and hardware that claims to install itself but doesn't always; where getting any kind of help with this failure is regarded as a paying extra.
    -- I dislike broadband providers who sell you this, and give you only a useless call centre operation guaranteed to waste hours of your time and probably take years off your life.
    -- I dislike manufacturers who sell PCs with Windows pre-installed, and don't provide install disks or any other way of fixing the OS.

    None of that is really the OS's fault.

    Leave a comment:


  • jkoder
    replied
    Originally posted by PAH View Post
    There's so much software out there now that any OS is irrelevant apart from deciding which base you want to build your castle on. Take Vista for example. Nothing really innovative on top of XP, just a pretified re-hash with some apps thrown in that are nothing to do with the OS side of things. I dare say most if not all of the stuff they built into Vista could be obtained from third parties for XP.
    Not really.

    If you are a PC gamer you would almost certainly choose Windows. If you were serious about audio/video/graphics then it would be a smart choice to get a Mac. Linux runs on low powered PC's and lot's of portable devices. It's free and open and this appeals to more and more people each year. I think some people like the hacking side of Linux that most people would classify as stress.

    OS software is some of the most mature, even the largest software company in the world failed to add any useful or innovative features to it's last release. Over the next ten years Linux based OS's will show more improvement than the already mature OS's offered by Apple and Windows.

    Leave a comment:

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