Reply to: MDI in .NET

[VectraMan]

But MDI means multiple completely independent documents per window, not one.

Multiple documents per application window, but one independent document per child window, which is what I said (or at least what I meant).

[NickFitz]

And I said:

MDI implies one completely independent document per window.

I didn't say application windows.

But MDI means multiple completely independent documents per window, not one.

[VectraMan]

An MDI application has a window within which multiple MDI child windows, which are frame windows themselves, can be opened, each containing a separate document.

And I said:

MDI implies one completely independent document per window

I didn't say application windows.

[voodooflux]

An MDI application has a window within which multiple MDI child windows, which are frame windows themselves, can be opened, each containing a separate document.

I think when VectraMan said "one completely independent document per window" the window he was referring to was the child window from that statement above.

[NickFitz]

Oh no it isn't.

Microsoft beg to differ:

An MDI application has a window within which multiple MDI child windows, which are frame windows themselves, can be opened, each containing a separate document.

[VectraMan]

That's SDI: each window has a single document, appearing to be a separate instance of the application.

Oh no it isn't.

[NickFitz]

MDI implies one completely independent document per window.

That's SDI: each window has a single document, appearing to be a separate instance of the application.

MDI is when there is one application window which contains all documents open in that application.

EDIT: or is it... MS's site seems to be at variance with the Wikipedia description... as usual when looking at MSDN, I'm getting confused now...

EDIT AGAIN: No, I was right the first time...

[voodooflux]

Just launched VC6 to check. Despite using VS full time, I hadn't noticed the change.

Know what you mean - the various versions are now a blur! Although it's interesting to see how basic (pun not intended) Visual C++ 1.0 was compared to Visual Studio 2008.

So to answer the OP, I guess what we're saying is the now commonplace left hand tree view, right hand full-sized data view ought to replace MDI.

I think tabs alone would probably fulfil the most basic criteria for being able to navigate document windows, while the specific application requirements would determine whether the tree/data views would be required.

[VectraMan]

Indeed Visual Studio (at least up to version 6.0) used the M$ MDI framework treating individual source files as the document, albeit in a slightly bastardised way within a solution/project context as you say.

Just launched VC6 to check. Despite using VS full time, I hadn't noticed the change.

Still, I think current versions of Visual Studio are a good example of how to deal with multiple documents/files within a single application.

So to answer the OP, I guess what we're saying is the now commonplace left hand tree view, right hand full-sized data view ought to replace MDI.

[voodooflux]

VS was never really MDI anyway, as you open a project/solution that references multiple files. MDI implies one completely independent document per window.

Yeah, I suppose the project/solution could be considered a single "document" in that case, but the traditional M$ MDI scenario could still apply as source files appeared in seperate windows. Indeed Visual Studio (at least up to version 6.0) used the M$ MDI framework treating individual source files as the document, albeit in a slightly bastardised way within a solution/project context as you say.

Still, I think current versions of Visual Studio are a good example of how to deal with multiple documents/files within a single application.

[VectraMan]

Indeed, taking the general interpretation of MDI then it is.

However MDI has a specific interpretation on M$ platforms, defined by the Win32 API in terms of multiple, resizeable child windows within a parent window. I'm guessing that's what the OP was referring to.

I guess so, all the cascade/tile crap is long gone in VS, though personally I'd always have everything maximized anyway so I hadn't really noticed the difference. I find I don't use the tabs, but my absolute favourite thing about VS2005 is the window that comes up when you ctrl+tab. That's how I navigate between files.

VS was never really MDI anyway, as you open a project/solution that references multiple files. MDI implies one completely independent document per window.

[voodooflux]

I.e. MDI.

Indeed, taking the general interpretation of MDI then it is.

However MDI has a specific interpretation on M$ platforms, defined by the Win32 API in terms of multiple, resizeable child windows within a parent window. I'm guessing that's what the OP was referring to.

[VectraMan]

For current solutions I'd suggest looking at something like Visual Studio, or perhaps any of the current generation of web browsers, where documents are arranged as tabs. That type of interface seems to work well.

I.e. MDI.

I hate SDI in Office whatever-version-ive-got. Worst is the way if you close what you think is one application it closes all the others too. I want an application to be an application. If I want a second one, I'll run it myself thanks.

[voodooflux]

I seem to recall the initial "backlash" against MDI started with the release of Windows 95 - I remember reading the UI guidelines before the final OS was released and they presented several alternatives to MDI whilst suggesting that MDI should be a last resort. It apparently took a while for Microsoft to follow their own advice.

For current solutions I'd suggest looking at something like Visual Studio, or perhaps any of the current generation of web browsers, where documents are arranged as tabs. That type of interface seems to work well.

[NickFitz]

What have they got against Scousers dancing?

Facetiousness aside, if MDI is frowned upon then the alternative would be SDI. I believe that MS have themselves concluded that MDI seemed like a good idea at the time but turned out to be an epic fail in TRW.

You will no doubt be aware that MS Office went from SDI to MDI then back to SDI again over the last few versions.

What Microsoft recommended in 2001 is not necessarily what they recommend now.