Reply to: Asp

[DaveP]

Thanks Jaws

[Jaws]

If I learn ASP .NET is there other packages I need to learn as well, or is that it.


Please beware before/if you respond the world of website creation is new to me so, I'd be learning right from the beginning.

As mentioned earlier, PHP is possibly better for you as a beginner.

The fundamentals on how websites (and HTTP specifically [GETs/POSTs] etc) operate, how cookies work, the differences between client side and server side script (which some people seem to have trouble understanding) and more need to be learned before you approach writing any form of server side web "application". HTML/Javascript/CSS are also a necessity (although it always used to surprise me how many developers don't have a good grasp on JS).

If you were to learn ASP.NET as a marketable skill you really should take a good look at object oriented programming with c# (or vb.net) as a language. This will mean reading a lot of books and even then some of what you know will be outdated, so keeping track of a variety of blogs is also important. It is really quite a big topic and I suppose without the right background can be difficult to be sure on the best approaches to take.

[Cowboy Bob]

If you look at a the recent examples found on various blogs, alot of the lazy arse developers tend to use sql datasource objects to provide a connection into the database from the web page.

I guess alot of new developers look at this, take it to be the defacto standard becauses its how <insert microsoft personality name here> does it in their example and then codes to that pattern.

And then they wonder why the DB runs out of connections in its pool (or more seriously that transactional integrity is broken) when more that 20 users access the site at the same time...

The same applies to PHP and other scripting languages BTW, which is why if you ever look at the DB code behind them you'll see all kinds of weird and wonderful ways to get round the issues ranging from strange flags in the database, to full on table locking.

[Weltchy]

MVC confusing? It's been THE standard methodology for web development going back years. The fact that I have just discovered that not only does it seem to be new to MS, but that it's confusing to supposedly experienced contractors made me seriously go

What are you people doing? Connecting directly to the DB from a front end script or something equally awful?

If you look at a the recent examples found on various blogs, alot of the lazy arse developers tend to use sql datasource objects to provide a connection into the database from the web page.

I guess alot of new developers look at this, take it to be the defacto standard becauses its how <insert microsoft personality name here> does it in their example and then codes to that pattern.

[KevinS]

Cutting Edge: Ruby on Rails

Most popular: Probably PHP/AJAX

Also, have a look at Apture - I read an article that reckoned this lot are the next Google in changing the web advertising world, but the technology is cool.. There is an example here of how it works..

[DaveP]

So much of the above is, as a beginner alien to me.

I didn't realise that there is such a choice, or that ASP was different to ASP .NET

So to all current/cutting edge web site creators out there.

What is the latest language thats in use or whats the most popular choice for web site creation.

If I learn ASP .NET is there other packages I need to learn as well, or is that it.


Please beware before/if you respond the world of website creation is new to me so, I'd be learning right from the beginning.

[VectraMan]

Classic ASP is bonkers. Whoever decided that starting a code loop in 1 script tag and finishing it in another one 3 feet further down the page with all manner of spaghetti in between was an acceptable way of doing things?

Perl and PHP did the same though didn't they?

And they're not really two different script tags. It looks a bit like a web page with mixed HTML and script, but the HTML is essentially compiled to one big document.write() call, so really it's all one script.

Pretty horrible, and by making it a bit like a web page, and a bit like a script, they succeeded in confusing both web monkeys and code monkeys alike.

[lilelvis2000]

MVC confusing? It's been THE standard methodology for web development going back years. The fact that I have just discovered that not only does it seem to be new to MS, but that it's confusing to supposedly experienced contractors made me seriously go

What are you people doing? Connecting directly to the DB from a front end script or something equally awful?

Admititly, I haven't done web development in years and the session really
was geared for ASP.Net geeks. So a lot of stuff was skipped over. The routing threw me off at first. But the concept I like and I'm sure that if I ever bother to learn ASP.Net I'll understand it better.

When I was doing ASP waaaay back when. The ASP just did a bit of presentation work. The rest was done by COM objects which has all the business logic in it. I'm guessing, aside from some fancy controls and code-behind...it hasn't progressed much since.

[Cowboy Bob]

Classic ASP is bonkers. Whoever decided that starting a code loop in 1 script tag and finishing it in another one 3 feet further down the page with all manner of spaghetti in between was an acceptable way of doing things?

PHP

[thunderlizard]

Classic ASP is bonkers. Whoever decided that starting a code loop in 1 script tag and finishing it in another one 3 feet further down the page with all manner of spaghetti in between was an acceptable way of doing things?

[VectraMan]

99% of ASP.NET developers have been using drag and drop widgets with database code in the pages. Nice for websites with up to 4 pages.....

Is "developer" really the right word?

I can do ASP. About 4 years ago I had to modify a shopping basket system done in perl, but I couldn't cope with perl so rewrote most of it with ASP using JavaScript. If I'd been smart I would have done it in ASP .NET and learned myself a marketable skill whilst somebody else was paying, but unfortunately I took the shortest route.

[DimPrawn]

MVC confusing? It's been THE standard methodology for web development going back years. The fact that I have just discovered that not only does it seem to be new to MS, but that it's confusing to supposedly experienced contractors made me seriously go

What are you people doing? Connecting directly to the DB from a front end script or something equally awful?

99% of ASP.NET developers have been using drag and drop widgets with database code in the pages. Nice for websites with up to 4 pages.....

[Cowboy Bob]

MVC confusing? It's been THE standard methodology for web development going back years. The fact that I have just discovered that not only does it seem to be new to MS, but that it's confusing to supposedly experienced contractors made me seriously go

What are you people doing? Connecting directly to the DB from a front end script or something equally awful?

[DimPrawn]

Sound slow, over complex, brittle and inflexible to me?

TM

Call yourself a contractor....

[themistry]

Your idea of PHP front end and ASP.NET web services sounds like a good idea.

Sound slow, over complex, brittle and inflexible to me?

TM