Reply to: IR35 - the end of a flexible workforce

[swamp]

Will big businesses hold out for any such review before making meaningful changes?

No, the damage has been done.

[JohntheBike]

It appears that the main political parties are all now offering a review on proposed IR35 legislation for the private sector but can they be trusted to do so and is any such pledge fruitless given the time left before implementation?

Will big businesses hold out for any such review before making meaningful changes?

What are peoples thoughts on this?

you can't trust any of them, they are all liars.

[bhand5]

Are Political parties changing their stance on IR35 or just trying to gain more votes

It appears that the main political parties are all now offering a review on proposed IR35 legislation for the private sector but can they be trusted to do so and is any such pledge fruitless given the time left before implementation?

Will big businesses hold out for any such review before making meaningful changes?

What are peoples thoughts on this?

[Jolie]

For the moment, my vote has to now go to labour and I can see many others on my contractor forums sharing the same views now.

Really?

There will always be idiots on these forums who vote for Labour regardless of how much harm it will do to them, but the fact that the UK is actually not doing that badly will far outweigh the complete shambles that will happen if Labour get into power.

Even though most people hate Bojo and his pals, myself included, they won't vote in a party that will completely wreck the economy, again.

Also you have to bear in mind who invented IR35 in the first place. As much as I hate what Hammond & co have done with the reforms, it doesn't remove the opportunities to work outside IR35 completely, they have simply tightened the noose and shifted the determination away from the contractor.

Yes there have been some knee jerk reactions from large companies, but there are some of us still getting good outside contracts, or clients willing to work with us to find other solutions.

Not that it matters to me, because I am running to the desert, but had it been an issue then I would vote Tory without hesitation.

[simes]

I would also like to know which telco is being rumoured... obvious candidates seem to be:

BT
Vodafone
Virgin Mobile
O2
EE
Sky

Anyone else heard about this?

For context:
“ ContractorUK is looking into claims that a nuclear waste company and a leading telco are the latest engagers to try to remove themselves from the scope of the draft IR35 legislation by ceasing to engage PSCs altogether.”
Source: Contractors’ end-clients handed IR35 reform checklist

And Vodafone it is.

Having been there twice, this news does not surprise me. Of all the telcos, Voda is the least interesting in every way. Nothing Ever got delivered there as bureaucracy, red tape, politics, changes of leadership every three weeks left everyone afraid of their own shadows.

So, in summary, their not having access to flexible workforces won't in any way trip up their delivery track record.

However, I do wonder if like the banks, this will start a telco stampede to side step the reform. Or, if the other telcos have a little more backbone, breadth of shoulder and wherewithal to look at it properly.

[NeedTheSunshine]

Regardless of whether you're better off inside IR35 than Labour's plans, you're still wasting your time writing to your MP. One of the aides will read it and might give a generic reply if you're lucky. The only way to make any impression/impact on MPs is to see them in person at one of their constituency surgeries.

[Amanensia]

Plus, with all the changes they are proposing with dividend and corporation tax, you are better off/just as well off inside ir35.

This.

[PTP]

RE: Bhand5

You are wasting your time/breath

The Labour bloke has clearly made statements they won’t honour, hence why all of his tweets regarding that got deleted (the press are a bit slow at recognising).

Plus, with all the changes they are proposing with dividend and corporation tax, you are better off/just as well off inside ir35.

So don’t waste your time, nor your vote!

[bhand5]

Labour in surprise pledge to scrap IR35 reform from April 2020

i've read this evening that Labour are now proposing to scrap the IR35 reform due to hit the private sector in April 2020. Personely i was planning on voting for the Conservative party so i have written to my Conservative MP to see if they too will change their stance.. Might be good if others did this too?

My Letter to my Conservative MP:

Good Evening x,

This evening it sounds like Labour are following in the footsteps of the Libdems and are prepared now to scrap the IR35 reforms due to be implemented in the private sector from April 2020.

Labour in surprise pledge to scrap IR35 reform from April 2020

This reform hugely effects the vast majority of colleagues I have ever worked with in the city over the past 20 years as an IT contractor.

It will also take it’s toll on businesses as many of its workers will be forced to move on to pastures new due to this new reform. I currently work for "X" and its astonishing to witness the risks the bank is being forced into taking by having to get rid of its most experienced staff due to the proposed ir35 reform. I can only imagine that the pain is felt harder for smaller businesses. This coupled with Brexit doesn’t seem to me like the best time to be implementing such reforms.

Please can you discuss this matter with your colleagues and let me know if the Conservative party are prepared to also change its position on the proposed IR35 legislation due to come in effect to the private sector from April 2020.

For the moment, my vote has to now go to labour and I can see many others on my contractor forums sharing the same views now.

Look forward to hearing from you soon.

[SussexSeagull]

Well someone who works five minutes up the road cannot expense their bus fare so why should you!!!!!!!11111 Pay your taxis (sic) and stop milking it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111123456789

You entirely miss the point. It is not financially worth me, or presumably anyone else in my circumstances, doing it anymore and they were seemingly incapable of finding someone locally to do it.

Ergo, if they wish to employ contractors they are going to have to consider paying expenses.

[Petrolhead]

From the main page, a lead story alludes to a nuclear waste company and a leading telco being the latest engagers to desist their use of PSCs.

Does anyone know who the telco might be??

Thanks.

I would also like to know which telco is being rumoured... obvious candidates seem to be:

BT
Vodafone
Virgin Mobile
O2
EE
Sky

Anyone else heard about this?

For context:
“ ContractorUK is looking into claims that a nuclear waste company and a leading telco are the latest engagers to try to remove themselves from the scope of the draft IR35 legislation by ceasing to engage PSCs altogether.”
Source: Contractors’ end-clients handed IR35 reform checklist

[bstar1]

You conveniently ended the comparison.

Sally can't be bothered getting out of bed this morning so the throws a sicky but still gets paid for it. When she returns, Sally books 2 weeks off paid leave, taking her paid holiday allowance down to 4 weeks plus statutory holidays. But before she takes that paid holiday, she is put on a weeks training course, one of many throughout the year. But even though Sally isn't delivering anything of any value, they just can't get rid of her. There's a downturn in business due to a new store opening up nearby. Customers are going there instead. There is no need for both Sally and Bob. Who do you think's going to be let go first? If they have to let both go, well at least Sally will get a nice payout.

Hit the nail on the head ! Seen this scenario many many times played out in my years 25+..

[Unix]

The gravy train has arrived at it's final destination.

[PlanB]

Hi

The implication then becomes why bother having permie staff? Just recruit thru umbrellas on fixed term and save on pension, sickness

A very insightful point, we are moving back to a stage that resembles the one before unionisation of labour where employees had zero rights. Add in the tsunami of automation reducing the need for labour, out of control human population growth and potential climate change and it leads to a very unpleasant picture.

IR35 is a minor side show in the ongoing hollowing out of the middle class.

Personally my plan B is learn as much as I can about horticulture and get some land.

[unixman]

Responding to OP. Meh. The flexible workforce will always be required, if GB is to remain competitive in any way. What goes around comes around.

And whatever the vehicle - Ltd, Umbrella - contracting will always command a premium, due to market forces.

I take the point though.