Reply to: Decisions, Decisions...

[DeludedKitten]

Surely it's the 6th April that is the important thing here. The client can say they thing the role prior to 6th April is inside, but up until 6th April, that's just their opinion - especially if it is a blanket assessment. If you ask HMRC they will say it is inside also, because that's their opinion. So long as you have something which states that the contract has been reviewed as outside and that is backed by insurance, then surely that's all that matters. Unfortunately after 6th April it's the clients view that wins

Agreed.

The client has an opinion that every role is inside, since they are making a blanket determination and not looking at the facts of the role or the individual case. IF there was an IR35 investigation then their opinion might make it harder to argue that you're outside, but given that it's being made on the basiss of no fact, it shouldn't hold much water at tribunal.

If the contract looks good, the review looks good, the working practices look good, and you have insurance to do the legal work for you if they come knocking, then I would be prepared to ignore the blanket determination prior to April and keep going.

Post April, it comes down to the appeals process (such that it is)

[dx4100]

Either way my point is the chances of being investigated are still very small and a inside determination only increases the risk IF HMRC investigate. An inside determination alone isn't going to increase that chance.

[Amanensia]

It's a big enough difference that they can't really just investigate everyone. If the client is making determinations role-by-role then that'd be a nice targetted list for HMRC to go to town on. By not making a determination they aren't being given such a list. They could of course just try to go after everyone, but resources are limited.

[dx4100]

The banks aren’t making a determination, they are making a policy change and refusing to engage PSCs. There is a big difference...

Do you think its a big enough difference that HMRC won't be taking an interest in those contractors that are caught up in it ?

[Major Hassle]

Isn't my correction above right ?

Still our best chance, as always, is the fact that HMRC investigate very few companies and that isn't likely to change any time soon. In fact, as long as you don't work for one of the big banks or other big companies saying they will blanket determine everyone inside, your chances of investigation as probably decreased given the now easy and very public low hanging fruit up for grabs.

I think with the fear of everything to come this point is being missed. Your still very unlikely to ever hear from HMRC

The banks aren’t making a determination, they are making a policy change and refusing to engage PSCs. There is a big difference...

[dx4100]

Yes. The client has officially said the role you are doing is inside so you are now an easy target IF HMRC come after you.

Isn't my correction above right ?

Still our best chance, as always, is the fact that HMRC investigate very few companies and that isn't likely to change any time soon. In fact, as long as you don't work for one of the big banks or other big companies saying they will blanket determine everyone inside, your chances of investigation as probably decreased given the now easy and very public low hanging fruit up for grabs.

I think with the fear of everything to come this point is being missed. Your still very unlikely to ever hear from HMRC

[Big Blue Plymouth]

But you should know whether it is or not. If you are a PM then it's highly likely they'll want another and they will assess the role, regardless of who is doing it so you'll still be caught.

Well, in that case it wouldn't really matter when I left I guess. I could leave tomorrow and they could deem the role inside IR35 sometime down the line and it could still potentially come back and bite me. As it happens, I am doing something quite specific on a particular project so I'm not likely to be replaced when it has finished.

[northernladuk]

Yes, that's worth trying

But you should know whether it is or not. If you are a PM then it's highly likely they'll want another and they will assess the role, regardless of who is doing it so you'll still be caught.

[northernladuk]

if I am still at the client when/if I'm deemed inside IR35 in December it's still problematic even if I leave before April ?

Yes. The client has officially said the role you are doing is inside so you are now an easy target for HMRC to come after you.

[Scruff]

Make a business decision, around your Daily Rate. If they make a blanket decision to deem you to be inside IR35, advise them that due to the change in circumstances out of your control, in order for you to continue with the Project Delivery you will have to increase your rate by 30%.

[BoredBloke]

Yes, that's worth trying

But they are not assessing anybody if they are doing a blanket everybody inside. The assessment has to take into account the contract and working practices. If you have had a review carried out an it says that you are outside, then surely this should count for more than the end client deciding everybody is inside, simply because they couldn't be bothered carrying out the assessment.

[Big Blue Plymouth]

1. Ideal would be if you can get them to agree to not assess you since the role ends the end of January, and there is no legal obligation to do so.

Yes, that's worth trying

[BoredBloke]

Surely it's the 6th April that is the important thing here. The client can say they thing the role prior to 6th April is inside, but up until 6th April, that's just their opinion - especially if it is a blanket assessment. If you ask HMRC they will say it is inside also, because that's their opinion. So long as you have something which states that the contract has been reviewed as outside and that is backed by insurance, then surely that's all that matters. Unfortunately after 6th April it's the clients view that wins

[sal]

If your problem is with the moral dilemma of having to ditch your Client in the middle of a contract. Perhaps discussing it it advance with the Programme manager and making him aware of your intentions to terminate the contract if they decide to force an inside determination on the existing contract prior to April 2020 could ease your conscious.

I'm in a similar boat - ClentCo haven't made their mind, but the project is on it's last legs, so I haven't pushed for a decision, was prepared to go at the end of November. Last week the project manager asked me to stay for another 3 months to deal with cleanup and documentation, which would bring me to the end of Feb with 1 week payment term of monthly invoices, which is perfect.

Good rate, relaxed environment, 20min from home, how could I refuse...

[Lockhouse]

For me it'd be outside or umbrells at client's insistence. This negates the outside then inside conundrum (at least in my opinion).