Consultation on IR35 reforms in the private sector

[ShandyDrinker]

Why surprised? Most contractors fall into that group of being the last to think about IR35.
If they think about it then it's usually an oh well I'll meet that when it comes, with as much understanding as they have about how much tax they actually do pay now.

The point is, many contractors don't realise the full responsibilities of running their own business and so will stumble blindly into IR35 even where they should not.

This will be compounded by the ignorance of the clients and agencies who insist on contract clauses that are straight copies from employment or temp contracts.

Most contractors I work alongside make few to no changes to their contracts and accept what is offered. The most common defence agencies give for poor contracts is ".. But we have n hundred contractors on this contract, why are you different".

My answer is I read the contract and do not wish to work inside IR35.
... And nor should the agency!

This last point actually makes it easier to get the changes I needed ironically. (I sometimes think I should charge for the improvements I advise!.. And no I'm not a legal!)

So I think most contractors have a little bit of blissful ignorance and many are just at a loss.

If only all this collective intelligence could be brought together we might have a voice.

For now I fear we have the mostly ignored bleats of our representative organisations who do the best they can... Sigh....

Spot on.

Sadly I would say that among the many contractors I've worked with over the last decade or so of contracting, a significant number have shown little or no interest in educating themselves about IR35. This has been particularly prevalent with the long term permitractors in larger organisations.

I've always been genuinely torn between considering long term contractors in an organisation obviously providing value because they keep delivering and because they keep their noses clean, don't make trouble and therefore get renewed almost as a reward for being a good chap (or chapess).

I was quite clear when I started contracting that I'd only ever want to work on projects of up to a couple of years and then move on to something new.

It is sad that, apart from a very vocal minority, the majority of contractors appear to be content to be passengers on the train which is about have a big crash post April 2020 and then wonder what the hell happened.

[independancerocks]

No Surprise...

If only! I doubt not too...

What is genuinely surprising is the lack of traffic on this forum about the private sector off payroll implementation.

Why surprised? Most contractors fall into that group of being the last to think about IR35.
If they think about it then it's usually an oh well I'll meet that when it comes, with as much understanding as they have about how much tax they actually do pay now.

The point is, many contractors don't realise the full responsibilities of running their own business and so will stumble blindly into IR35 even where they should not.

This will be compounded by the ignorance of the clients and agencies who insist on contract clauses that are straight copies from employment or temp contracts.

Most contractors I work alongside make few to no changes to their contracts and accept what is offered. The most common defence agencies give for poor contracts is ".. But we have n hundred contractors on this contract, why are you different".

My answer is I read the contract and do not wish to work inside IR35.
... And nor should the agency!

This last point actually makes it easier to get the changes I needed ironically. (I sometimes think I should charge for the improvements I advise!.. And no I'm not a legal!)

So I think most contractors have a little bit of blissful ignorance and many are just at a loss.

If only all this collective intelligence could be brought together we might have a voice.

For now I fear we have the mostly ignored bleats of our representative organisations who do the best they can... Sigh....

[jamesbrown]

More analysis here too:

IR35 experts size up off-payroll working consultation

[jamesbrown]

I popped over to IPSE to see what is happening and what the forums say. Not a lot more than here. Will they fight this like the arctic case or roll over?

IR35 consultation: everything you need to know | IPSE

IPSE: ‘Myopic’ IR35 extension will ‘hamstring’ UK businesses

[jamesbrown]

I don't see anything particularly surprising or interesting in the consultation, other than clarification of liability passing down the chain as responsibilities are addressed and, perhaps, the client providing the status decision directly to the contractor. The mooted process to challenge status decisions sounds pointless (administered by the client). The stuff about pensions is pretty laughable too. Otherwise, more-or-less as expected, I think.

[BlueSharp]

If only! I doubt not too...

What is genuinely surprising is the lack of traffic on this forum about the private sector off payroll implementation.

I popped over to IPSE to see what is happening and what the forums say. Not a lot more than here. Will they fight this like the arctic case or roll over?

[ShandyDrinker]

If it is ok to assess 1 contractor and blanket over the others, does that mean that 1 contractor proving they are outside IR35 means the same is true for the others. I expect it's not!

If only! I doubt not too...

What is genuinely surprising is the lack of traffic on this forum about the private sector off payroll implementation.

[eazy]

IR35 : New Off-Payroll private sector consultation launched

https://assets.publishing.service.go...April_2020.pdf

[BoredBloke]

Having also just read it and the statements about not blanket assessing, I cannot see any other approach that clients in the private sector will take.

I think that HMRC are overestimating the competence of HR departments when they say they believe they'll be able to handle it and making judgements. Hell, many of them can't even handle sorting out contracts properly so I struggle to see how they'll handle the nuances of IR35 determination.

If it is ok to assess 1 contractor and blanket over the others, does that mean that 1 contractor proving they are outside IR35 means the same is true for the others. I expect it's not!

[ShandyDrinker]

Having also just read it and the statements about not blanket assessing, I cannot see any other approach that clients in the private sector will take.

I think that HMRC are overestimating the competence of HR departments when they say they believe they'll be able to handle it and making judgements. Hell, many of them can't even handle sorting out contracts properly so I struggle to see how they'll handle the nuances of IR35 determination.

[BlueSharp]

The promised consultation is due out today, 5 March. You'll be able to find it here when it arrives:

Publications - GOV.UK

Just skim read it. Pretty much as expected with the only notable change that liability passes down the chain to the agencies and will stop at the point in the chain where a party has not provided the relevant info to the next link in the chain.

[jamesbrown]

The promised consultation is due out today, 5 March. You'll be able to find it here when it arrives:

Publications - GOV.UK