Reply to: HMRC Enquiry letters on Loans from EBT and other schemes

[Bunnyfuture]

loan charge action group

Hi also in Oz and would welcome any information that might help.

Just joined the forum and would like ability to PM please.

contact /google loan charge action group and email them, there is a growing group of aussies that are in same boat

[OzBased]

Any chance you could share the advice with me also? I'm in the same position and very unsure what to expect from HMRC now that I've left the UK... Thanks!

Hi also in Oz and would welcome any information that might help.

Just joined the forum and would like ability to PM please.

[webberg]

Hi all,

Does anyone have any information about who the current trustees are of services provided by Kirium Employment Solutions (White Collar Consulting)? I'm trying to get actual figures of amounts involved from 07/08 and 08/09.

Yes, people do have these details.

No, we are not permitted to share them in the public forum.

15 minutes research on any decent engine and you will find out.

[Swizzle]

Kirium Employment Solutions

Hi all,

Does anyone have any information about who the current trustees are of services provided by Kirium Employment Solutions (White Collar Consulting)? I'm trying to get actual figures of amounts involved from 07/08 and 08/09.

[Bunnyfuture]

down

Hi MinHeadRoom

I am in a similar situation - moved to Aus a few years ago and just got a letter. Would be keen to see what you have found out...BTW how do I PM on this forum - do I need to get permissions set?

Yeah same with me too -

I got letter but it does not state any date by which you need to do anything

[rta]

Hi everyone,

I was with TRM/Redding/Cherrylon for 4 years before leaving the UK for AUS permanently at the end of 09.

I myself have been round the houses and have spoken to most of the advisers on this forum and HMRC directly regarding CLSO and next steps.

Is there anyone else that I can PM directly to gain and share advice / information gleaned to date? I'd like to understand from others in a similar situation what strategy options are being considered.

Please PM me direct if you prefer.

Thanks

Hi MinHeadRoom

I am in a similar situation - moved to Aus a few years ago and just got a letter. Would be keen to see what you have found out...BTW how do I PM on this forum - do I need to get permissions set?

[chrisnal]

Same

Will PM you

Please PM me also

[Finalwhistle]

Any reason you didn't go LTD but declare inside IR35 ? Even without expenses/dividends I thought you would be slightly better off than an umbrella and you get to keep control of your money, in your business account from invoice.

good point.

I dissolved my limited company when i went "employed" with the loan arrangement so i would have had to start up a new LTD. This isn't such a big admin problem, however I thought if i set up another LTD so shortly after closing the other (and doing the same line of work) i may attract unwanted attention with regard to IR35.
You are right though, i didn't really consider the advantages of LTD inside IR35. But what advantages are there really? i guess things like investing in training, pensions etc are all still a legitimate cost?
would be good to know actually
thanks

[regron]

Except the difficulty is that you will be paid net of tax, which makes company accounting just a little more tricky...

Ah ok...cheers Malvolio

[malvolio]

Any reason you didn't go LTD but declare inside IR35 ? Even without expenses/dividends I thought you would be slightly better off than an umbrella and you get to keep control of your money, in your business account from invoice.

Except the difficulty is that you will be paid net of tax, which makes company accounting just a little more tricky...

[Boobetty]

I am shocked to think that the same person that sold me this rubbish, is profitering again by posing as a 'Tax Specialist' to solve problems he played a part in creating.

I think you'll find that a fair few of the professionals out there offering their services to sad contractors are in the same boat.

[regron]

Don't shoot the messenger here but the future of contracting is dead. April 19 signifies not only the DR LC but also potentially IR35 roll out to the private sector (as they did to the public sector). The options are go legit Umbrella at returns circa 64% or go Limited Company (with returns circa 74% if you are genuinely a company and IR35 compliant). There are no financial advantages between any of the umbrella companies other than the fee they charge (£20-40 per week) but after tax this varies very little. It is worth thinking about some of the other advantages that the umbrella offers i.e. customer rewards schemes and choosing your own pension provider (rather than the standard NEST). Having been involved in this mess i have gone full umbrella as a bit of a "breather" from it all. I've actually found my umbrella company to be very useful, knowledgeable and customer service has been excellent which is exactly what i need with all the uncertainty surrounding my previous employment years. If you want to hit them up their name is Liberty Bishop. Remember that these guys are set up to sort small contracts so start up with them and worth going legit for a bit until you decide what "other" course you want to run in the future.

Any reason you didn't go LTD but declare inside IR35 ? Even without expenses/dividends I thought you would be slightly better off than an umbrella and you get to keep control of your money, in your business account from invoice.

[Finalwhistle]

...

In fairness Associate services used the word challenge, not fight.

I do disagree with the amount that HMRC want, as if i subtract that from my 88% i will be left with circa 40%.

When speaking with Associate services earlier today, as i mentioned in my original post, transferring my assets and declaring myself bankrupt - like the 88% seems to good to be true.
Their other suggestion of using another alternative umbrella company was also mentioned called Tailored Services which don't use loans but can still get me back 80% on a day rate of £300.
Ill check them out tomorrow but again it seems to good to be true.

I have looked into Big group but can you recommend a tried and trusted firm to assist with 'challenging the APN and gaining me some closure?

Don't shoot the messenger here but the future of contracting is dead. April 19 signifies not only the DR LC but also potentially IR35 roll out to the private sector (as they did to the public sector). The options are go legit Umbrella at returns circa 64% or go Limited Company (with returns circa 74% if you are genuinely a company and IR35 compliant). There are no financial advantages between any of the umbrella companies other than the fee they charge (£20-40 per week) but after tax this varies very little. It is worth thinking about some of the other advantages that the umbrella offers i.e. customer rewards schemes and choosing your own pension provider (rather than the standard NEST). Having been involved in this mess i have gone full umbrella as a bit of a "breather" from it all. I've actually found my umbrella company to be very useful, knowledgeable and customer service has been excellent which is exactly what i need with all the uncertainty surrounding my previous employment years. If you want to hit them up their name is Liberty Bishop. Remember that these guys are set up to sort small contracts so start up with them and worth going legit for a bit until you decide what "other" course you want to run in the future.

[webberg]

First, your 88% is presumably 100% of your invoices less 12% fees?

If so, HMRC claim that the basis of the tax charge is the 100%.

Resisting that is possible but HMRC do dig their heels in. We have convinced them in some instances that the start point is the net value, but their manual in this is always to not believe that.

For an umbrella to be within the provisions in Chapters 7 thru 9 ITEPA, they will treat all income going to you are subject to PAYE. There are some excellent threads here on umbrellas and the better ones will tell you that a PAYE type return is pretty standard across the reputable outfits.

If an umbrella is promising more, investigate carefully as there is likely to be some sort of tax "efficiency" involved and most of the legitimate means of doing that have been closed over the past two/three years, e.g. tax free allowances and contracts from non UK employers.

APN and closure are very different.

APN is hard to resist unless you want to go to Court as part of a Judicial Review. Expensive and to date none of them have worked.

Closure means settlement. You can do that with HMRC and start the process by calling them. That will not stop DMB collecting on the APN.

Closure usually comes with a legal agreement to sign part of which says that you will not be part of tax avoidance again. That's a loaded phrase, especially when HMRC can decide 15 years after the event that there has been avoidance, but you need to think about it hard.

On your day rate I would say you should be looking at 64% to perhaps 68%. Less umbrella fees. HMRC will see any umbrella offering 80% as avoidance. That would unpick any closure via settlement and lead to a heap of trouble.

As you say, if it looks too good to be true it probably is.

I will declare an interest in that we advise Big Group. That is aimed as resolution. You do not have to have left all "schemes" to be part of it, but we always recommend that you do.

Anyway, as you have obviously concluded that Big Group is not for you and perhaps by extension WTT, you will need to conduct a search of suitably experienced firms who can help.

Good luck

[Ambitions]

In fairness Associate services used the word challenge, not fight.

I do disagree with the amount that HMRC want, as if i subtract that from my 88% i will be left with circa 40%.

When speaking with Associate services earlier today, as i mentioned in my original post, transferring my assets and declaring myself bankrupt - like the 88% seems to good to be true.
Their other suggestion of using another alternative umbrella company was also mentioned called Tailored Services which don't use loans but can still get me back 80% on a day rate of £300.
Ill check them out tomorrow but again it seems to good to be true.

I have looked into Big group but can you recommend a tried and trusted firm to assist with 'challenging the APN and gaining me some closure?