Reply to: Is it too late to request settlement?

[webberg]

Not removed, but cunningly bypassed certainly.

• The Part 7A charge applying in April 2019 (aka The Loan Charge).
• Part 7A being a notional payment, allowing Reg 81 to apply automatically.
• Technical note upon technical note (HMRC interpretation, I believe - correct me if Im wrong) to disallow offset of an unpaid debt by an employer on the liability raised on the employee - Tackling disguised remuneration: draft guidance for changes to Part 7A - GOV.UK

I'm not sure that the second part of the above is correct.

The rules on Loan Charge permit a transfer of liability from liable party - employer - to recipient - employee. That I agree with.

The rules of receipts falling within Part 7A (but excluding the loan charge) do permit transfer but only in specific circumstances.

HMRC is very adept at suggesting that the wider powers they have under LC rules can apply to ALL Part 7A payments. We think that has more to do with what HMRC want you to think than what is in the law.

[RickG]

Can you show me the legislation passed which removed/revoked or amended TMA 1970?

Not removed, but cunningly bypassed certainly.

• The Part 7A charge applying in April 2019 (aka The Loan Charge).
• Part 7A being a notional payment, allowing Reg 81 to apply automatically.
• Technical note upon technical note (HMRC interpretation, I believe - correct me if Im wrong) to disallow offset of an unpaid debt by an employer on the liability raised on the employee - Tackling disguised remuneration: draft guidance for changes to Part 7A - GOV.UK

[ChimpMaster]

Can you show me the legislation passed which removed/revoked or amended TMA 1970?

Obviously I cannot, but the feeling stands that the LC overrides everything we expect from the laws surrounding tax enquiry timeframes.

[webberg]

Except that HMRC have overridden TMA 1970 by implementing the LC. Especially in reference to my earlier post, those with only closed years from > 6 years ago.

Can you show me the legislation passed which removed/revoked or amended TMA 1970?

[ChimpMaster]

Only as a temporary, outside IR35 option.

TMA 1970 has the present iteration of how enquiries are opened and closed. It's coming up to 50 years old. It is itself an iteration of an earlier act which had similar principles (even though it was pre self assessment).

Go and read it. Please. It's valid UK legislation and applies to you, me, HMRC and everybody else hoping the loan charge will disappear.

This is the basis upon which we advise our clients.

I'm now tired of repeating myself on this point and will cease responding on it.

Except that HMRC have overridden TMA 1970 by implementing the LC. Especially in reference to my earlier post, those with only closed years from > 6 years ago.

[webberg]

Ever considered a career in PR for HMRC?

Only as a temporary, outside IR35 option.

TMA 1970 has the present iteration of how enquiries are opened and closed. It's coming up to 50 years old. It is itself an iteration of an earlier act which had similar principles (even though it was pre self assessment).

Go and read it. Please. It's valid UK legislation and applies to you, me, HMRC and everybody else hoping the loan charge will disappear.

This is the basis upon which we advise our clients.

I'm now tired of repeating myself on this point and will cease responding on it.

[stonehenge]

Except - as I keep saying - the loan charge is NOT the end of the process.

I'm aware that many people think that if HMRC get the LC money then they will stop all enquiries into open years.

This is simply untrue and untenable under present legislation.

We fear that many people are pinning their hopes on the loan charge disappearing under the weight of political pressure.

Even if that happens, if you have open years (valid HMRC enquiries), then HMRC would certainly restart the process.

Killing the loan charge is not the end of the process.

Ever considered a career in PR for HMRC?

[ChimpMaster]

Except - as I keep saying - the loan charge is NOT the end of the process.

I'm aware that many people think that if HMRC get the LC money then they will stop all enquiries into open years.

This is simply untrue and untenable under present legislation.

We fear that many people are pinning their hopes on the loan charge disappearing under the weight of political pressure.

Even if that happens, if you have open years (valid HMRC enquiries), then HMRC would certainly restart the process.

Killing the loan charge is not the end of the process.

Yes that much will always be true. Though one might imagine HMRC taking decades to get back to any open enquiries once they have their hands on the LC money.

Also I wonder, there are many (probably more?) people with closed years than open. In which case, should the LC fall away, then that will be the end of the matter. And in this case, in a country now devoid of both logic and justice, Hope is all we have.

[webberg]

Except - as I keep saying - the loan charge is NOT the end of the process.

I'm aware that many people think that if HMRC get the LC money then they will stop all enquiries into open years.

This is simply untrue and untenable under present legislation.

We fear that many people are pinning their hopes on the loan charge disappearing under the weight of political pressure.

Even if that happens, if you have open years (valid HMRC enquiries), then HMRC would certainly restart the process.

Killing the loan charge is not the end of the process.

[stonehenge]

In hindsight, I bet HMRC wish they'd never offered settlement. It's so much work processing all those requests and information and having to deal with people. What a chore.

The LC is so much easier. Just sit back and let the taxpayers do all the grunt work on their tax returns.

HMRC issue briefing: charge on disguised remuneration loans - GOV.UK

"All individuals who have outstanding disguised remuneration loan balances, and have not reached a settlement, must provide information on their loans to HMRC by 30 September 2019. They will also need to file a tax return for the year 2018 to 2019 by 31 January 2020."

[ChimpMaster]

HMRC seem to be encouraging settlement applications still.

Don't know what their plan is though.

Interesting, considering the apparent deadline is 31 Aug.

I'm still waiting for a reply to queries I sent to HMRC in response to their initial CLSO "offer". They took 8 months to reply to my first query, so I wonder if their response to my second query will take another 8 months. Seems that I'll miss the 31 Aug deadline

[webberg]

HMRC seem to be encouraging settlement applications still.

Don't know what their plan is though.

[CryingSheep]

To be fair I recently made a payment over the phone to HMRC for some income tax from 3 years ago and now they can't find the money/payment...

[BrilloPad]

Dear HMRC,

I sent you information in March 2019 about settlement but I haven't heard anything back. Can you let me know when I will be receiving my settlement offer.

Many thanks,

Just remember that anything we send to HMRC has to be sent registered. Everything HMRC send is assumed to have arrived 4 days letter. Its an uneven playing field.

[stonehenge]

If you're keen to settle then just email and call them. They've probably lost your original CLSO2 from last year because they're so inundated and understaffed.

Dear HMRC,

I sent you information in March 2019 about settlement but I haven't heard anything back. Can you let me know when I will be receiving my settlement offer.

Many thanks,