Reply to: Procorre - letters advising allocation of profits

[peasant2023]

I have just received a similar letter - I worked through procorre for 15 weeks in 2014 and now have a tax demand for twice what I earned in that time!! I dont understand how they calculate 1 - the loan amount, 2, the additional revised 'pay from all employments' in 18/19 figure. I would have thought that would be the same as the loan amount but it is 25% more? totally confusing & after speaking to the guy at the end of the phone at HMRC, im still none the wiser. Does anyone have a clue how this works?

They added the Loan to your 2018/19 income and taxed that at PAYE rates.
The figures are guesstimates and designed to cause panic so you'll take action.

You need to appeal within 30 days - Speak to a professional tax advisor

You will ultimately need to be able to prove how much you actually received in those 15 weeks to demonstrate your correct liability.

[peasant2023]

What did the guy on the phone say ? When i called them the lady just said, if you think it's wrong then appeal !

You need to appeal within 30 days, you said you spoke to WTT, ask them to appeal immediately.

[srowell8]

No idea - i am just going to appeal with my actual pay received, HMRC are just incorrect with their calculation I believe. Who knows how they made it.

What did the guy on the phone say ? When i called them the lady just said, if you think it's wrong then appeal !

[srowell8]

I have just received a similar letter - I worked through procorre for 15 weeks in 2014 and now have a tax demand for twice what I earned in that time!! I dont understand how they calculate 1 - the loan amount, 2, the additional revised 'pay from all employments' in 18/19 figure. I would have thought that would be the same as the loan amount but it is 25% more? totally confusing & after speaking to the guy at the end of the phone at HMRC, im still none the wiser. Does anyone have a clue how this works?

No idea - i am just going to appeal with my actual pay received, HMRC are just incorrect with their calculation I believe. Who knows how they made it.

[mattjc72]

I am a 1st time poster on here having received an HMRC disguised loan demand yesterday. I did 1 contract for Procorre in 2014 for a relatively low value (44 days) now I have a tax demand for nearly 3x the value of the money I received - surely this can't be correct/legal etc. I have a call with WTT tomorrow and seeing this thread they seem to be the people who are looking into this for a number of people. 1 - Has anyone on here actually reached a resolution with HMRC 2 - I don't fully understand the loan value as I never received this money can someone explain, is the "loan value equivalent to the payments made by Procorre ?. Many thanks

I have just received a similar letter - I worked through procorre for 15 weeks in 2014 and now have a tax demand for twice what I earned in that time!! I dont understand how they calculate 1 - the loan amount, 2, the additional revised 'pay from all employments' in 18/19 figure. I would have thought that would be the same as the loan amount but it is 25% more? totally confusing & after speaking to the guy at the end of the phone at HMRC, im still none the wiser. Does anyone have a clue how this works?

[srowell8]

I am a 1st time poster on here having received an HMRC disguised loan demand yesterday. I did 1 contract for Procorre in 2014 for a relatively low value (44 days) now I have a tax demand for nearly 3x the value of the money I received - surely this can't be correct/legal etc. I have a call with WTT tomorrow and seeing this thread they seem to be the people who are looking into this for a number of people. 1 - Has anyone on here actually reached a resolution with HMRC 2 - I don't fully understand the loan value as I never received this money can someone explain, is the "loan value equivalent to the payments made by Procorre ?. Many thanks

[Fred Bloggs]

Yes I am in the situation - Procorre have declared some profit shares last year which I declared this SA. Now they are saying there is another profit share coming this March/April. This sum seems like it’s going to be even more than the last one. What’s a ridiculous way of declaring tax one where we are caught off guard completely.

Can anyone confirm if the profit share is actually declared by Procorre to HMRC? Or are we just declaring something we don’t really need to be.

I'm not sure it matters one bit what Procorre do. If you have undeclared income you are legally obliged to inform HMRC about it. If you don't do so, then you are willfully with holding that information from HMRC. Hector does not like that one bit. He has some very heavy duty sanctions at his disposal for such behaviour including incarceration at one of HM Prison Service estabishments. I think you ned to have a serious think if you are tempted to not disclose previously untaxed income. From Procorre or anyone else.

For the benefit of the doubt I am neither a lawyer nor a tax adviser.

[NickLeeson2]

Yes I am in the situation - Procorre have declared some profit shares last year which I declared this SA. Now they are saying there is another profit share coming this March/April. This sum seems like it’s going to be even more than the last one. What’s a ridiculous way of declaring tax one where we are caught off guard completely.

Can anyone confirm if the profit share is actually declared by Procorre to HMRC? Or are we just declaring something we don’t really need to be.

Was there ever a solution to this? Are they still issuing amounts to declare?

[Sheky]

Procorre profit shares

Procorre have replied to me confirming that they will be declaring these profit shares in the UK.
They say the profit share is my allocation of profits made whilst on project for Procorre and the funds were received via my business development fund whilst on project and the process means I can now declare them on my self-assessment.

As much as I don't want that to be the case I'm finding it hard to see how they're wrong.

Yes I am in the situation - Procorre have declared some profit shares last year which I declared this SA. Now they are saying there is another profit share coming this March/April. This sum seems like it’s going to be even more than the last one. What’s a ridiculous way of declaring tax one where we are caught off guard completely.

Can anyone confirm if the profit share is actually declared by Procorre to HMRC? Or are we just declaring something we don’t really need to be.

[BrilloPad]

No implication. I understand it, have my own views on why in the light of present judicial principle, it is unsustainable and what a better argument moving forward is.

Apologies I mis-read your earlier posts. As above, Graham is highly recommended.

[webberg]

Graham has implied he understands - I am sure if anyone sends him a PM he will respond.

No implication. I understand it, have my own views on why in the light of present judicial principle, it is unsustainable and what a better argument moving forward is.

[BrilloPad]

(My bold highlight) Exactly my point, nobody did/does. So, it's pretty much impossible to choose the "correct" tax specialist. It's like a lucky dip.

Graham has implied he understands - I am sure if anyone sends him a PM he will respond.

I just spoke to Phil and he knows it inside out. In fact, he is working on it now. If anyone wants to contact Phil then email Phil at pmtaxc dot com. If you mention CUK/BrilloPad it will help. Any issues getting in touch, feel free to PM me.

[Fred Bloggs]

I understand nothing about Procorre. I do understand very well the way HMRC treat people. And the best ways of getting help.

IMO a specialist adviser is someone who has dealt with these type of schemes before. The more the better. Of course they are all a bit different.

I have never had posts moderated which suggest webberg or Phil. Phil did put up a linkedin post recently recommending other advisers too.

No adviser has a silver bullet. Its going to be a long hard slog and HMRC will make progress as slow, difficult and costly as possible.

(My bold highlight) Exactly my point, nobody did/does. So, it's pretty much impossible to choose the "correct" tax specialist. It's like a lucky dip.

[BrilloPad]

But a specialist tax adviser in what exactly? It always seemed to me (rightly or wrongly) that opacity, obfuscation and secret-ism were the key hallmarks of Procorre. How'd you choose the "right specialist" under those circumstances. Of course, you may well understand far more than I about Procorre.

I understand nothing about Procorre. I do understand very well the way HMRC treat people. And the best ways of getting help.

IMO a specialist adviser is someone who has dealt with these type of schemes before. The more the better. Of course they are all a bit different.

I have never had posts moderated which suggest webberg or Phil. Phil did put up a linkedin post recently recommending other advisers too.

No adviser has a silver bullet. Its going to be a long hard slog and HMRC will make progress as slow, difficult and costly as possible.

[Fred Bloggs]

IMO you need quite a specialist tax adviser.

But a specialist tax adviser in what exactly? It always seemed to me (rightly or wrongly) that opacity, obfuscation and secret-ism were the key hallmarks of Procorre. How'd you choose the "right specialist" under those circumstances. Of course, you may well understand far more than I about Procorre.