Reply to: Phil - 'The Tax guy' (the rather dull and underwhelming sequel)

[Invisiblehand]

Promoters penalties mean it’s physically impossible for Phil or anyone to make a penny from any scheme that doesn’t work and insella was brought out after the legislation (unlike vanquish and all the others) so clearly Phil believes it works.

He's definitely not doing it out of the kindness of his heart.

[webberg]

Promoters penalties mean it’s physically impossible for Phil or anyone to make a penny from any scheme that doesn’t work and insella was brought out after the legislation (unlike vanquish and all the others) so clearly Phil believes it works.

Not sure I would agree with that.

POTAS rules, apart from being UK centric, are only ever going to be applied in arrears.

By the time HMRC has found the resource to investigate, suffered the inevitable delays caused by moving away people who investigate and replacing them with somebody who starts again, finds anybody in HMRC who understands the loan schemes well enough to understand this proposed counter, we're looking at a point well into late 2020 perhaps 2021.

HMRC then has the unenviable task of going through the assessment/appeal/decision process which may require another few years.

We saw all of this with DOTAS. Many of the promoters who sold schemes, disclosed or not, were long out of reach by the time HMRC got its act together.

[Iliketax]

Promoters penalties mean it’s physically impossible for Phil or anyone to make a penny from any scheme that doesn’t work and insella was brought out after the legislation (unlike vanquish and all the others) so clearly Phil believes it works.

No idea about Phil's position or what Phil believes. But the rest of what you have written is bo!!ocks.

A "promoter" in UK tax legislation means something very different to what promoter means in the normal world.

If the promoter was in the UK, had £1m of assets and HMRC was successful in showing that they were a "promoter" (as defined in tax legislation) then you may be right. But if the (tax defined) "promoter" was in (say) Cyprus then they would be outside of the UK promoter rules.

If the promoter were in the UK and only had £17 of net assets (like Hyrax Resourcing seems to have per its latest accounts) then £1m of fines will not make a practical difference. How does a "successful" promoter end up with only a few assets? Maybe they pay someone else who is not a promoter (per tax legislation) but is a promoter in the real world sense, a lot of money?

[GammaMadrid]

Promoters penalties mean it’s physically impossible for Phil or anyone to make a penny from any scheme that doesn’t work and insella was brought out after the legislation (unlike vanquish and all the others) so clearly Phil believes it works.

[Invisiblehand]

While many would agree with some of the tweet stuff including myself, Phil has been doing all sorts of unsung stuff behind the scenes. Don't expect everything to be explicitly communicated though, why tell HMRC what you are doing unless you want them to know.

Still no news on what the gran plan is? What was the Big Thing you have been talking about?

If the plan is to just give Mel Stride tulip on twitter then he's worth every penny. If it's for something a little more grown up then I'm not so sure.

[Iliketax]

Surely if they believe it doesn't work, HMRC will charge Phil under the Promoter legislation they claim to be using?

The promoter legislation is not a criminal bit of legislation and so "charge" is not the right word.

Also, this is UK legislation rather than legislation that can Cypriot legislation. But I have no idea who is actually promoting what, or in what capacity, and have no idea whether anything was promoted in the UK before the beers were bought.

The other thing is that people may well be scammed before 6 April and any tribunal decision would be too late for them.

[WalterWhite]

I'm a mind reader! Disguised remuneration: schemes claiming to avoid the loan charge (Spotlight 49) - GOV.UK



Just in relation to the "mind reader" comment: I do not (and have not) worked for HMRC, I was not told by HMRC that there was going to be a spotlight (nor did they send me a copy) but the keystroke logger does seem to be working well.

Surely if they believe it doesn't work, HMRC will charge Phil under the Promoter legislation they claim to be using?

[Invisiblehand]

You need to sit down and have a nice cup of tea. Oh, and stop massively exaggerating or making stuff up.

Which bit did I make up?

[stonehenge]

Well, it doesn't come much plainer than this, the first part of the spotlight notice from HMRC -

Quite honestly, anyone who takes on board the Cyprus scheme on top of all the other stuff that's happened needs locking away for their own safety. IMHO.

Using a scheme to circumvent primary anti-avoidance legislation (LC) is likely to end very badly.

I would expect HMRC to use the GAAR to clobber it, with maximum penalties.

HMRC brings GAAR and tax avoidance rules back in the spotlight

[dammit chloe]

For me, and I suspect many others, his credibility has gone. Many of the original schemes were sold as a way to get around IR35. What he's done is come on here, grab a load of business, realise he can make more money through an offshore scheme and start to flog it. Ironically he blasts the loan charge on twitter despite the fact he will have made a lot of money out of this.

If you're suggesting slagging Mel Stride around 50 times a day is "unsung" stuff then I suggest you have a particularly low standard of hero.

You need to sit down and have a nice cup of tea. Oh, and stop massively exaggerating or making stuff up.

[Fred Bloggs]

I'm a mind reader! Disguised remuneration: schemes claiming to avoid the loan charge (Spotlight 49) - GOV.UK

Well, it doesn't come much plainer than this, the first part of the spotlight notice from HMRC -

HMRC is aware of schemes and arrangements that claim to avoid the 2019 loan charge on disguised remuneration. It's HMRC's view that these schemes do not work.

Quite honestly, anyone who takes on board the Cyprus scheme on top of all the other stuff that's happened needs locking away for their own safety. IMHO.

[Invisiblehand]

While many would agree with some of the tweet stuff including myself, Phil has been doing all sorts of unsung stuff behind the scenes. Don't expect everything to be explicitly communicated though, why tell HMRC what you are doing unless you want them to know.

For me, and I suspect many others, his credibility has gone. Many of the original schemes were sold as a way to get around IR35. What he's done is come on here, grab a load of business, realise he can make more money through an offshore scheme and start to flog it. Ironically he blasts the loan charge on twitter despite the fact he will have made a lot of money out of this.

If you're suggesting slagging Mel Stride around 50 times a day is "unsung" stuff then I suggest you have a particularly low standard of hero.

[Iliketax]

You also have to remember that his very own advice is not to touch these things as they don't work.

There is now so much information on the internet (here, QC's websites, promoter's sites, Twitter, etc) that it would be easy for HMRC to work out the various ways being touted to, purportedly, stop the April 2019 loan charge.

...

Oh, and some of the comments seem to focus on what people should disclose (leave a nominal £400 or so of tax to pay type of comments). And that then gets you into even more serious consequences if it involves offshore stuff. I think Cyprus may be a "category 1" territory so only a 100% penalty for new things (but haven't checked) but who knows what countries are actually involved in whatever is done.

...

I'm a mind reader! Disguised remuneration: schemes claiming to avoid the loan charge (Spotlight 49) - GOV.UK

You should beware of arrangements or schemes which may involve one or more of the following features:

- be marketed from an off-shore location such as Cyprus, Malta or Isle of Man, claiming to avoid the 5 April 2019 loan charge legislation
- claim that by entering the scheme, your disguised remuneration loans are paid off
- claim that the scheme is not disclosable under the Disclosure Of Tax Avoidance Schemes regime, and may have benefited from a QC opinion,
- may have professional marketing material, including a website

...

Misleading, or concealing information from HMRC may result in criminal prosecution.

Just in relation to the "mind reader" comment: I do not (and have not) worked for HMRC, I was not told by HMRC that there was going to be a spotlight (nor did they send me a copy) but the keystroke logger does seem to be working well.

[dammit chloe]

I'd be happy to forgive Phils threats, name calling and slightly egocentric, childish musings on Twitter as I'd imagine he has a million people calling him and asking him to fix their problems which I assume is stressful. I've not really used twitter much before this but its a massive drain on your psyche and spare time.
But of all the massive threats of 'game changing facts to be released to public', I am unsure what if any have been released by Phil?
Is there a game changer Phil? Or what are you talking about, as sadly I do have to agree here that it just sounds like you want attention and have nothing?
I am waiting for you to redeem yourself. I hope you do....

While many would agree with some of the tweet stuff including myself, Phil has been doing all sorts of unsung stuff behind the scenes. Don't expect everything to be explicitly communicated though, why tell HMRC what you are doing unless you want them to know.

[QUODM]

Phil's redemption

I'd be happy to forgive Phils threats, name calling and slightly egocentric, childish musings on Twitter as I'd imagine he has a million people calling him and asking him to fix their problems which I assume is stressful. I've not really used twitter much before this but its a massive drain on your psyche and spare time.
But of all the massive threats of 'game changing facts to be released to public', I am unsure what if any have been released by Phil?
Is there a game changer Phil? Or what are you talking about, as sadly I do have to agree here that it just sounds like you want attention and have nothing?
I am waiting for you to redeem yourself. I hope you do....