Reply to: Winchester Contractors Trust Help line -Contact Details

[cojak]

Dozy Bastard decided that he didn’t like this forum any more and asked Admin to delete his account.

One can only imagine why he chose to do this...

[pac]

My concern

There's always going to be a degree of doubt so if you want certainty, don't do it. There are lots of reasons to wonder how THL ever got a contract to handle this for the trustees. They must have been cheap! But the one thing that made all the difference for me is the money isn't paid to THL. It's paid to a company in the IOM called DOR Resolutions Ltd. I paid a £2 fee to the IOM companies register to uncover that this company is owned by the trustee I owe the money to. They're all based at the office of Baker Tilly IOM. All THL's emails and text messages seem to drive you towards one thing, which is asking this company for a set of draft deeds. That must be how they get paid. Someone sent in the email? Kerching. After you send it, you get a zip file with all the draft deeds in. I'm not going to pretend I'm qualified to judge them properly so you might want to show them to a lawyer, but they look pretty solid to me. I signed them and sent them back, then paid once I had confirmation they'd arrived. So far I've not had them returned but I do believe they will come.


I can help you out a bit there. In my case it was a guy called Andrew Thornhill QC. As Google will show, he's already been dealt with quite robustly. To find the others involved, search for tax avoidance QC. They won't all be guilty but the ones you're looking for will be on the list. Happy hunting ;-)

I'm being asked to pay 5% of my outstanding loan but why isn't the loan being written of against the money they initially received from our employer and why aren't DOR Resolutions chasing this ? When asking for a phone number to talk to someone got told we don't have a contact number, everything has to be via the TrustHelpLine portal, also when asked about the initial funds they received is being managed they said not their problem but couldn't direct me to who I could follow this up with. Also if being written off why are HMRC stating unpaid income tax / NI needs to be paid on the whole loan amount so they are seeing this as income and not a 'loan' !

Hi Dozy,

Are you able to share any of this correspondence and documentation?

Especially the draft dead for the Winchester scheme.

But any contact details that allow me to deal directly with THL (not through their very dodgy portal) or better yet, the actual trustees, would be extremely useful.

Unfortunately I wasn't with Winchester so can't be sure if my deed is the same. Happy to share it anyway but I'll need to edit out all the personal details first. It'll need to wait until I can concentrate on it at a PC. Still not got the signed ones BTW but apparently there's been a postal strike in the IOM. Re contacting them, you can just reply to their emails. When I first emailed them I got no response at all but I think that changes ones you prove your ID. They were responsive enough after that.

[webberg]

My employer was quite clear that their loan scheme was completely legal and in compliance... but that a) wasn't true and b) there seems to be no legal recourse to the fact they lied...

You are wrong.

a) it was true. Nobody is claiming that the scheme you did was illegal. HMRC claim it does not give the tax effect you were told, but that is a long way short of saying it's illegal.

b) yes there is.

[Bemi]

All THL's emails and text messages seem to drive you towards one thing, which is asking this company for a set of draft deeds. That must be how they get paid. Someone sent in the email? Kerching. After you send it, you get a zip file with all the draft deeds in.

Hi Dozy,

Are you able to share any of this correspondence and documentation?

Especially the draft dead for the Winchester scheme.

But any contact details that allow me to deal directly with THL (not through their very dodgy portal) or better yet, the actual trustees, would be extremely useful.

I didnt mean tax wise. I meant covered in that you know, for absolute certain, that no one can legally come after you for the rest of the loan. That's what I was referring to regarding being lied to before. You obviously can't trust THL, so how do you KNOW that you will be covered.

There's always going to be a degree of doubt so if you want certainty, don't do it. There are lots of reasons to wonder how THL ever got a contract to handle this for the trustees. They must have been cheap! But the one thing that made all the difference for me is the money isn't paid to THL. It's paid to a company in the IOM called DOR Resolutions Ltd. I paid a £2 fee to the IOM companies register to uncover that this company is owned by the trustee I owe the money to. They're all based at the office of Baker Tilly IOM. All THL's emails and text messages seem to drive you towards one thing, which is asking this company for a set of draft deeds. That must be how they get paid. Someone sent in the email? Kerching. After you send it, you get a zip file with all the draft deeds in. I'm not going to pretend I'm qualified to judge them properly so you might want to show them to a lawyer, but they look pretty solid to me. I signed them and sent them back, then paid once I had confirmation they'd arrived. So far I've not had them returned but I do believe they will come.

3. Track down the individuals involved and drag them into the light of day so that, even if HMRC is an arse and the law is impotent, at least everyone around them knows how they earn their money and the impact it has.

I can help you out a bit there. In my case it was a guy called Andrew Thornhill QC. As Google will show, he's already been dealt with quite robustly. To find the others involved, search for tax avoidance QC. They won't all be guilty but the ones you're looking for will be on the list. Happy hunting ;-)

[Bemi]

Hi Bemi. I'm not really sure what you mean by 'covered'

I didnt mean tax wise. I meant covered in that you know, for absolute certain, that no one can legally come after you for the rest of the loan. That's what I was referring to regarding being lied to before. You obviously can't trust THL, so how do you KNOW that you will be covered.


"I should say I'm not very popular round these parts"

Yes, there appears to be a hint of Salem in the air. I respect your decision, I may or may not copy it, and I admire and thank you for being open to questions.

You THL stooge you


"What are you planning to do?"

1. Pay THL unless someone can provide a better reason than "don't give these pirates money" or a better sense of safety than "you could challenge them recalling the whole loan but you'd probably lose". I don't fancy being bankrupted at an unknown date in the next 30 years and I don't think my mental health would survive waiting for it to happen. Waiting for HMRC to do anything has been bad enough. I can't cope with much more such suspense.
2. Find out who is taking legal action against these parasites and join them.
3. Track down the individuals involved and drag them into the light of day so that, even if HMRC is an arse and the law is impotent, at least everyone around them knows how they earn their money and the impact it has.

So, do you know for sure that you are now covered and how do you know this?

Hi Bemi. I'm not really sure what you mean by 'covered'. I'm going to have to pay tax on at least 95% of the loan amounts and judging by HMRC's announcement today it seems I might have to pay tax on all 100% of it. I'm not sure how to pay though. If HMRC ever get around to replying to my registration to settle, I was planning to do it by negotiation, but I'm now not sure if this will cost more than just putting it on my 18/19 tax return in the usual way, or even just buying a CTD. I'm pretty sure that I won't be repaying any more than 5% of the loans. That's the deal with TLH but - caveat! - I still don't have my actual signed deeds yet. I paid at the weekend so I'm not panicking just yet but admit to the occasional nervous twitch. I should say I'm not very popular round these parts for paying but my loans weren't that big and I can afford it. I'd rather do that than have the aggravation.

On this part...

My employer was quite clear that their loan scheme was completely legal and in compliance... but that a) wasn't true and b) there seems to be no legal recourse to the fact they lied...

I don't know what you were told so obviously I can't comment on that. But in my case, the blame is all mine. I knew what I was getting into. I could blame the promoter for promising me it would all be fine. I could blame HMRC for changing the law retrospectively so that it wasn't fine. I could blame my personal circumstances at the time for driving me into something I wouldn't normally get involved in.

But in the end, it was my decision. Fortunately I'm now able to buy my way out of it. I'll probably get slated for writing that as well.

What are you planning to do?

[Bemi]

Hi Dozy Bastard. Thanks for the offer, much appreciated.

Regarding this...

The deeds writing off the loans are quite clear that once it's done, it's done. Over with. No more bother.

My employer was quite clear that their loan scheme was completely legal and in compliance... but that a) wasn't true and b) there seems to be no legal recourse to the fact they lied...

So, do you know for sure that you are now covered and how do you know this?

Hi Julius, I'm seeking financial advice at the moment over this, and I note today that the cost goes up to 10% of the loans on the 1st March. Did you get anywhere with it?

Sorry for jumping into your conversation but I thought I'd mention that I've paid my 5% and am waiting for my deeds to come back signed. I have a slightly different view to most of the people commenting here. So far the 'trustees' and their Help Line have been fairly straightforward with me, if a little persistent. The deeds writing off the loans are quite clear that once it's done, it's done. Over with. No more bother.

Of course, I also have to pay the tax on the 95% that gets written off, but that's a separate issue. I'm going to have to pay that tax anyway.

If you want to know anything about my experience so far... ask away

[Big Rod]

Hi Julius, I'm seeking financial advice at the moment over this, and I note today that the cost goes up to 10% of the loans on the 1st March. Did you get anywhere with it? I'm very tempted to ignore it, because the whole concept of this dodgy business seems completely illegal to me, it's our money we loaned back to ourselves. My years of investigation are all closed with HMRC, so I don't really worry too much over it, but it's slightly distracting.

R

How would I know or find out if my year(s) is/are closed?

[Coresme2]

If anyone would like to collaborate on this issue, pls do PM me.

It seems THL are bombarding us with emails & text ATM....

Hi Julius, I'm seeking financial advice at the moment over this, and I note today that the cost goes up to 10% of the loans on the 1st March. Did you get anywhere with it? I'm very tempted to ignore it, because the whole concept of this dodgy business seems completely illegal to me, it's our money we loaned back to ourselves. My years of investigation are all closed with HMRC, so I don't really worry too much over it, but it's slightly distracting.

R

[webberg]

Hi All

Does anyone know a good solicitor/Barrister that specialises in tax?

Thanks

I suspect that the SRA and the Bar Council know quite a few.

[agileSean]

Legal direction

Hi All

Does anyone know a good solicitor/Barrister that specialises in tax?

Thanks

[Julius C]

Collaboration

If anyone would like to collaborate on this issue, pls do PM me.

It seems THL are bombarding us with emails & text ATM....