Reply to: Loan Charge Action Group - Thoughts

[webberg]

Webberg

One of the big challenges is that the LC payment will be due next year, so the clock is ticking and the interest will start adding up.

It's unlikely that a legal challenge can be brought so quickly. It would be great if this could be done, at least one way or the way things would become clearer.

Given that the loan charge was announced in March 2016, withdrawn and then remade in November 2016, there was never any realistic prospect that a legal challenge based on the Rangers decision would get to court before the charge triggers on 5th April 2019.

With the best will in the world, a case to Tribunal would have to battle HMRC delaying tactics and similar and even if we started in March 2016, a hearing before 2020 was never going to happen.

It is disappointing that all those ex promoters who were "helping and defending" their former clients and making very bullish noises about how their schemes always worked and would be proven so, backed by a defence fund (or further fees taken from you) have ALL so far failed to get into Court, despite promises made in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014.....

However the timing is an issue and cannot be solved without some degree of risk.

[headspin]

I joined Friday and today will be making the £100 payment today. So apologies to anyone in the group if I start balling on their shoulders.

To be honest am at wits end. I cant sleep, I'm tired, . I've tried to explain half the mess to my wife but she doesn't get it or just gets upset. I've booked a weekend away with her so alone and can try to explain without interference of your two young children but she's excited and.... well then telling her I'm err bankrupt or will be within 9 months.

I'm hoping someone pulls a rabbit out of the bag or this is all just a bad nightmare

Stay strong and be positive. There are good people working on your behalf and you didn't even know it. We'll get through this.

[ChimpMaster]

Webberg

One of the big challenges is that the LC payment will be due next year, so the clock is ticking and the interest will start adding up.

It's unlikely that a legal challenge can be brought so quickly. It would be great if this could be done, at least one way or the way things would become clearer.

[webberg]

The LCAG is doing sterling work and I sincerely hope that they achieve all or some of their aims.

In particular, if the loan charge can be used to bring the whole enquiry process to an end, that will be a fantastic result.

That might be by having the MPs limit the tax charge to say 10% of loan balances, limiting the loans caught and accepting that previous enquiries are closed, a combination of these. We have been pressing for this for 2 years now and the problem is that the MPs are being misled (putting it politely) by senior HMRC people as to the facts and circumstances. We continue that fight by all means we consider sensible.

That includes supporting LCAG in their part of the campaign.

However, achieving a withdrawal/deferral of the charge will not - on its own - bring the process to a close.

HMRC claims that the majority of schemes used amount to tax avoidance that can be countered by application of the law as it existed at the time the payments were made.

Aside from the Boyle and Rangers cases, both of which decided that - in the circumstances of those schemes - an employer paid remuneration to an employee, HMRC has no sanction for making a charge on an individual.

HMRC claim that legislation introduced over the past 3 years, especially the loan charge, makes a payment of tax inevitable and the only question is when, how much interest might be due and whether a penalty might apply if one of the "concessions" or "opportunities" is passed over. HMRC are not shy of promising dire consequences if these are ignored. There are posters here who support that view and there are some who do not.

Please be aware however that a withdrawal of the loan charge will not on its own remove the issue.

An amendment of the loan charge as above has the capability of bringing everything to a close at a reasonable position for everybody - and is one of the objectives of LCAG - and to achieve this, a legal case against the charge is probably a necessary step.

[lowpaidworker]

I joined Friday and today will be making the £100 payment today. So apologies to anyone in the group if I start balling on their shoulders.

To be honest am at wits end. I cant sleep, I'm tired, . I've tried to explain half the mess to my wife but she doesn't get it or just gets upset. I've booked a weekend away with her so alone and can try to explain without interference of your two young children but she's excited and.... well then telling her I'm err bankrupt or will be within 9 months.

I'm hoping someone pulls a rabbit out of the bag or this is all just a bad nightmare

[phil@pmtc]

As mentioned earlier in this thread - I assist them when possible. When I first agreed I did it as morally I couldn't say no - now im simply honoured to be part of it - what i've been most impressed with is all they have achieved and continue to do so. I firmly believe the situation will be improved thanks to all the actions we have ongoing.

[me206et]

can you still join this group now or has a deadline passed ?

Yes you can and please do.
The more the better.
You do need to provide some information and be vetted, to ensure you are someone affected.
Lots of useful information there.
It cost £100, to help cover costs, but I think well worth it.

[lowpaidworker]

can you still join this group now or has a deadline passed ?

[CockneyRed]

UP to you

It's entirely up to you whether you join LCAG or not but there are currently 1200 members with a much more positive outlook on the loan charge. There is a lot of work and effort going on behind the scenes that justify the fee for full membership. As mentioned earlier - you can join as a guest and make your mind up later - It's up to you

[LandRover]

Roughly how many people have signed up with LCAG?

membership is rising quickly with over 1102 members already.

[Lurker99]

Definitely worth joining LCAG, I'm member and they are fighting LC on multiple fronts and great source of support and facts to engage others. The £100 is to cover costs which they are very open about. They are not professional advisors but group of highly motivated individuals just like us caught up in this nightmare.

[snk888]

Hi,I’m a member of LCAG and Big Group. I have found both very useful. Lots of information to digest on both forums. A great place to get moral support. I like to have as much info as possible to help me make decisions about going forward.
Having said that. If you have made you mind up to Settle in CLSO2 then I would suggest you talk to Phil and Graham to get a feel for who, if anyone, you need to help you with the settlement process and maybe just pay for that.

Roughly how many people have signed up with LCAG?

[Clairol]

LCAG

Hi,I’m a member of LCAG and Big Group. I have found both very useful. Lots of information to digest on both forums. A great place to get moral support. I like to have as much info as possible to help me make decisions about going forward.
Having said that. If you have made you mind up to Settle in CLSO2 then I would suggest you talk to Phil and Graham to get a feel for who, if anyone, you need to help you with the settlement process and maybe just pay for that.

[me206et]

Yes, absolutely I am signed up with them myself. They are pushing back against the LC on several fronts. You can become a guest for free but most of the info is only available after becoming a full member which requires a £100 and some vetting to make sure you are who you say you are and not someone unwelcome.

Well they vet you first.
Would have been happier if they were up front about the £100 and not waited until you have been vetted to say you can only see the guest forum unless you pay.
Waiting for access to see if it was worth it.
I am sure it is.

[RickG]

Definitely. Very helpful and Phil from dsw is involved with them too. They have their own private forum for discussion, once you're a full member.