Reply to: 'compliant' arrangement

[Fred Bloggs]

HMRC should be going after the individuals responsible for creating the schemes i. E. The big players. It's all very well going after the little people but unless they go after the big boys, what's to dissuade the big players? Otherwise the HMRC are just bullies and cowards

Quite agree, most people will, I guess. Question is, given that these people are now stinking rich, they are likely living the high life in Panama, Seychelles or some place. So, how exactly are the UK authorities going to pin anything on these guys that will actually stick? Don't forget, these are very rich people, if required, they can hire some very smart lawyers.

[animallover]

HMRC should be going after the individuals responsible for creating the schemes i. E. The big players. It's all very well going after the little people but unless they go after the big boys, what's to dissuade the big players? Otherwise the HMRC are just bullies and cowards

[Fred Bloggs]

No idea - but here's an example of a different type of scheme https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...and-others.pdf

Thanks, clearly, that prosecution was brought against the perpetrators central to the schemes. The problem I foresee with these tax avoidance schemes is that if an accountant is prosecuted, he was guilty of giving bad tax advice. The people who made the REAL money will still be swanning around in their multi million pound yachts. In that respect, the accountant is a victim of the scheme too. Albeit, not to the same extent as the scheme users. I imagine the worst that can happen to such an accountant would be a fine and a loss of professional standing.

[Iliketax]

Very good article. So, middle column, bottom of page 34. Who has gone to jail? How many?

No idea - but here's an example of a different type of scheme https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...and-others.pdf

[Fred Bloggs]

Might want to read page 34+ of this: https://www.taxadvisermagazine.com/s...UNE-lowres.pdf

Very good article. So, middle column, bottom of page 34. Who has gone to jail? How many?

[webberg]

Might want to read page 34+ of this: https://www.taxadvisermagazine.com/s...UNE-lowres.pdf

Agreed - very good article and worth reading.

[Fred Bloggs]

Good points but the umbrella company is well established and definitely permanently UK based. Many of the payment companies are Isle of Man which is UK...? Not saying it will be straightforward but..

Sorry, IoM is not UK. They have their own parliament that writes their own laws. I know nothing about the so called umbrella company involved. They were just window dressing though, I'm guessing. The people you really need to take action against, I can pretty much guess how bullet proof (in all senses of the word) they will be given the years of planning they have had to prepare.

[Iliketax]

I feel some lawsuits coming on... And quick as well, before these companies disappear..

Might want to read page 34+ of this: https://www.taxadvisermagazine.com/s...UNE-lowres.pdf

[animallover]

Playing devils advocate for a second, if you bring a case before a UK court, (I do not know what case you would make, but setting that aside) and you won the case. What would the UK court be able to do to an entity that is off shore, the assets likewise - if there even are any recoverable assets that is. How will a UK court judgment benefit you? The people behind these schemes have basically done a runner with your money. They have had years to plan their exit. That money, even if it were traceable, is likely in a Cayman Islands, Panama, Belize, you name it anonymous account. I'm curious to understand where you intend going with such a court case.

Good points but the umbrella company is well established and definitely permanently UK based. Many of the payment companies are Isle of Man which is UK...? Not saying it will be straightforward but..

[Fred Bloggs]

I feel some lawsuits coming on... And quick as well, before these companies disappear..

Playing devils advocate for a second, if you bring a case before a UK court, (I do not know what case you would make, but setting that aside) and you won the case. What would the UK court be able to do to an entity that is off shore, the assets likewise - if there even are any recoverable assets that is. How will a UK court judgment benefit you? The people behind these schemes have basically done a runner with your money. They have had years to plan their exit. That money, even if it were traceable, is likely in a Cayman Islands, Panama, Belize, you name it anonymous account. I'm curious to understand where you intend going with such a court case.

[Dmac]

Didn't really know what we were signing up to

I'm beginning to realise that many of us really had no idea what we were signing up to. The complexity of the arrangements included multiple transfers between shady onshore and offshore entities, trusts and supposedly legitimate payment management companies like Umbrella Contracts Ltd and Smartpay.

I feel incredibly stupid for falling for the nonsense in their literature, and for not investigating the solutions and providers more rigorously at the time I signed up (2013) when it now appears there were plenty of warnings about (including on this site).

I (and may others) am certainly being punished now for this whilst the perpetrators get off scott-free with their vast wedges of cash! My anger however is more at myself than the schemers and HMRC.

Rant over - I do find it a bit therapeutic!

[animallover]

I feel some lawsuits coming on... And quick as well, before these companies disappear..

[Togoodtobetrue]

Ps. The companies are Umbrella Contracts Ltd who use Birling Management...

As far as I remember their director on companies house is an ex smart pay director, it’s amazing how many of these schemes link back to the same people!

[animallover]

Ps. The companies are Umbrella Contracts Ltd who use Birling Management...

[animallover]

Thanks for all the replies. Firstly i think the reason why many recommend these 90% take home umbrella type companies is because there are referral fees. Every person they refer they get £500

With all the new legislation noone should seriously consider one of these schemes. Far better to use an Ltd company and pay a reputable accountant so sort your affairs unless you are savvy.

The dilemma is what to do for those caught up. The vast majority if not all tax experts would advise someone in my situation to just settle.

It's just the company are so adamant that they are compliant... I can't see a test case coming out in time.

All I can do is be totally up front and provide HMRC with all the facts and beg for leniency.... 😥😥😥