Reply to: How far will HMRC pursue the debt if you don't pay an APN?

[DeadDOTAS]

Thank you all - for comments here as well as reaching out via PM.

Greatly appreciated and given the sense that some folks to care, giving hope for humanity.

I am working on various solution(s) - some of you here know me anyway, so guess am in the best hands.

However, if HMRC (and it's them, not me - believe me I have been exploring solutions with them over the past 3+ years) wants to make it EXISTENTIAL, then I guess that's what it is.

My own life philosophy is normally a glass half full guy - but it also involves emptying it out if it gets too stale, running it through the universal dishwasher and refilling it....

For now, am good. That said, the future will depend on HMRC - ball in their court.

[northernladyuk]

I was just talking with someone who has some professional expertise in this area (mental health), and who described suicide as 'a permanent solution to a temporary problem'. Yet another way of looking at this is that you need to find a reason for hope for the future, which may not necessarily be financial or career related. Family or perhaps something else?

I'll shut up now.

[BrilloPad]

This is where prescribed meds have a place.

Absolutely! Though I am concerned they can take weeks to take effect - and in the meantime things can get a hell of alot worse.

Support is usually provided during that time. After that its like being yourself - though with more mental distance.

[northernladyuk]

Remember the article from Monday links about the chap who threw himself off the Golden Gate bridge - then realized all his problems were solveable - apart from having just jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge.

As bad is those who take drugs. Then die days later from the drugs. Wishing they had not taken them.

Its a personal view - but I never feel sorry for people after they are dead. Its those who suffer afterwards - sometimes unrelated(like train drivers, paramedics). Yesterday at Euston all trains stopped as someone committed suicide. The news is the disruption. I doubt anyone will ever know why they did it.

A couple of years ago a colleague threw himself under a train. Child the same age as baby bp. Yesterday it bought it all back to me.

Not that this necessarily helps anyone else. Each has to find their own way through.

I have PMed the OP to see if I can help directly.....

Well done. it's hard to get perspective with severe anxiety. This is where prescribed meds have a place.

[BrilloPad]

Another way of looking at this is that many people facing financial ruin will have considered suicide, and later in life will be glad they pulled through and rebuilt their life, no matter what the outcome of the financial crisis they were facing. I doubt there are many who wish they had killed themselves.

Remember the article from Monday links about the chap who threw himself off the Golden Gate bridge - then realized all his problems were solveable - apart from having just jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge.

As bad is those who take drugs. Then die days later from the drugs. Wishing they had not taken them.

Its a personal view - but I never feel sorry for people after they are dead. Its those who suffer afterwards - sometimes unrelated(like train drivers, paramedics). Yesterday at Euston all trains stopped as someone committed suicide. The news is the disruption. I doubt anyone will ever know why they did it.

A couple of years ago a colleague threw himself under a train. Child the same age as baby bp. Yesterday it bought it all back to me.

Not that this necessarily helps anyone else. Each has to find their own way through.

I have PMed the OP to see if I can help directly.....

[northernladyuk]

Hi BrilloPad,

Thanks for your kind note and offer to help, much appreciated.

Yes, I have seen a shrink already. Diagnosis "severe stress due to external singular stress factor (= HMRC)" and, as there is no other stresses in my life, have ensured this is well documented: both on medical file AND in the tax folder for whoever has to clean this mess up when I am no more...

I've been given "anxiety" medication which I am not taking as it won't take the underlying issue away. The prescription is also in the tax folder, to remind me if I ever need it....

Chances are, the quick resolution will be a fast running train, high enough cliff or tall building am afraid.
If this was so, would make sure the reasons for this are very widely publicized.

Guess nobody cares anyhow, but at least I've explored every single/feasible avenue.
Things must change - whether I will be around to see them is a different thing.

Brillo is right. I suggest you consider again the anxiety medication. It won't take the underlying issue away but it may give you a different view on it, and give you sufficient psychological stability to decide what to do in a considered manner. If you are actively considering or planning suicide, then this is a medical emergency and you need to treat it seriously. There are services out there and voluntary support groups.

One way of looking at this is that you have two related problems:

1. The APN
2. The anxiety

You sound unable to deal with the first, before dealing with the second, and the medication may help you.

Another way of looking at this is that many people facing financial ruin will have considered suicide, and later in life will be glad they pulled through and rebuilt their life, no matter what the outcome of the financial crisis they were facing. I doubt there are many who wish they had killed themselves.

[DeadDOTAS]

Have you been to see your GP on this?You need to explain all this to a shrink. You can get emergency appointments for your local mental health centre. You can get added to the HMRC vulnerable list. This will not stop them. However will delay them.

PM me if you need help on this. Most people find they have less issues than me....

Hi BrilloPad,

Thanks for your kind note and offer to help, much appreciated.

Yes, I have seen a shrink already. Diagnosis "severe stress due to external singular stress factor (= HMRC)" and, as there is no other stresses in my life, have ensured this is well documented: both on medical file AND in the tax folder for whoever has to clean this mess up when I am no more...

I've been given "anxiety" medication which I am not taking as it won't take the underlying issue away. The prescription is also in the tax folder, to remind me if I ever need it....

Chances are, the quick resolution will be a fast running train, high enough cliff or tall building am afraid.
If this was so, would make sure the reasons for this are very widely publicized.

Guess nobody cares anyhow, but at least I've explored every single/feasible avenue.
Things must change - whether I will be around to see them is a different thing.

[BrilloPad]

Personally, bankruptcy is not an option for me as I said already elsewhere.

I would not be employable in my sector at all. And I would loose my current job: 25yrs careers flushed down the toilet based on APNs that are (regardless of Rangers) invalid = non-existent debt.

So, for me, this would be the end of the road at which point I would likely end EVERYHING rather quickly.
Am sure won't be alone and will ensure that the reasons (= HMRC ONLY) behind such an untimely early departure from this planet are very well publicised and widely known.

Have advised Hector/DMB in no uncertain terms of my stance on this.
If they read my letters, who knows - either way, am beyond caring!

Have you been to see your GP on this?You need to explain all this to a shrink. You can get emergency appointments for your local mental health centre. You can get added to the HMRC vulnerable list. This will not stop them. However will delay them.

PM me if you need help on this. Most people find they have less issues than me....

[DeadDOTAS]

Personally, bankruptcy is not an option for me as I said already elsewhere.

I would not be employable in my sector at all. And I would loose my current job: 25yrs careers flushed down the toilet based on APNs that are (regardless of Rangers) invalid = non-existent debt.

So, for me, this would be the end of the road at which point I would likely end EVERYHING rather quickly.
Am sure won't be alone and will ensure that the reasons (= HMRC ONLY) behind such an untimely early departure from this planet are very well publicised and widely known.

Have advised Hector/DMB in no uncertain terms of my stance on this.
If they read my letters, who knows - either way, am beyond caring!

[washed up contractor]

I may well be able to report on this very soon; HMRC getting very heavy with us about APNs. Seeing my MP at emergency surgery tomorrow; no mortgage lender will lend on tax debt, so really running out of options

You found out the hard way you dont ask any lender to loan you money against a tax debt. You have to say it is for home improvements. Yes, it is not telling the truth but when between a rock and a hard place, it is what you have to do.

[regron]

I may well be able to report on this very soon; HMRC getting very heavy with us about APNs. Seeing my MP at emergency surgery tomorrow; no mortgage lender will lend on tax debt, so really running out of options

Hi SummerhillLass,

Did you make all your relevant representations to your APN's ? Not a cure, but if timed correctly, could delay the hounds even further to give you more time to find a solution.

[SummerhillLass]

Endgame here

I may well be able to report on this very soon; HMRC getting very heavy with us about APNs. Seeing my MP at emergency surgery tomorrow; no mortgage lender will lend on tax debt, so really running out of options

[washed up contractor]

I wasn't looking for advice.

I just wanted to know if folks here had heard of anyone being bankrupted, receiving a CCJ etc over an unpaid APN.

The APN \ FN 'blunt hammer' usage is still relatively new so the chances of anyone being bankrupted by HMRC is likely to be few at this time. However, do not be surprised if this changes rapidly in the next 5 or so years.

In the past, HMRC have not batted an eyelid at making 'ordinary' folk bankrupt over tax debts. The APN \ FN legislation speeds this process up somewhat ie give us the money we say you owe then we'll argue about it later.

Personally, I think they will start making scheme users (not just contractors) who cannot afford to settle, bankrupt.

[BrilloPad]

+1 but I suspect you would need to turn up in person to ensure a house sale / bankruptcy wasn't forced upon you.

Going forward as things get to that point this site will probably need a suggested does and don'ts FAQ...

So far those affected by APNs are on other closed forums. Hopefully some information will seep out. The issue, as ever, is the number of trolls who frequent these boards.....

[eek]

It will be interesting to see what assets they have.

I can't see a judge forcing a house sale or bankruptcy.

+1 but I suspect you would need to turn up in person to ensure a house sale / bankruptcy wasn't forced upon you.

Going forward as things get to that point this site will probably need a suggested does and don'ts FAQ...