Reply to: Self assessment query section 9a

[webberg]

Big group has been mentioned and I'll respond.

This is a question that has been asked - and answered - before.

The 2019 charge will apply to all unpaid disguised remuneration loans unless they have been repaid (in cash and with money that is itself not before or after that repayment, part of another tax avoidance plan) or the tax has been settled.

The BG resolution plan is to settle the tax.

If we do this pre 2019 - happy days - we will all know where we are.

If we do this post 2019, then we will have to appeal the assessment and postpone the tax until it is agreed.

So BG will survive 2019.

As a parallel, if 2019 was the be all and end all of the argument, why are HMRC continuing to spend hundreds of man hours chasing enquiries for earlier years? If they win their argument (whatever it is), do you think that they will still raise a 2019 charge or not? I think not and that is why the exemption exists.

[regron]

""since the 2019 loan tax was announced how has this impacted biggroup? Excuse my ignorance here but were BG not created to try to come to a fair settlement for us contractors in this situation? If the 2019 loan tax ruling over rules then what his the gain of joining BG? ""

Not sure if I have my answer. Ideally I would want to know above before joining BG? Am I missing something?

Join BG
Discuss and prepare reply to section9a (along with scheme provider)
If payment is demanded - seek professional advice


Does this seem a plan? Or is more suitable to advise a tax specialist to take control from the start? I believe WTT charges are approx £1k for 12 months of per tax year .... Am i correct in thinking this could go on for years?

You will be best calling them, explaining your situation, listen to what they have to say, then make an informed decision as to whether it is worth joining yourself.

In other words, hear it from the horses mouth.

[Diamond1]

""since the 2019 loan tax was announced how has this impacted biggroup? Excuse my ignorance here but were BG not created to try to come to a fair settlement for us contractors in this situation? If the 2019 loan tax ruling over rules then what his the gain of joining BG? ""

Not sure if I have my answer. Ideally I would want to know above before joining BG? Am I missing something?

Join BG
Discuss and prepare reply to section9a (along with scheme provider)
If payment is demanded - seek professional advice


Does this seem a plan? Or is more suitable to advise a tax specialist to take control from the start? I believe WTT charges are approx £1k for 12 months of per tax year .... Am i correct in thinking this could go on for years?

[jbryce]

For me personally: -
1. I would follow scheme providers advice unless they ask for money
2. If you want to challenge HMRC, BG is the only way forward. HMRC will play hard ball - however a large number of people paying a (relatively) small amount got decent legal advice is the only way forward.
3. If you do not want to challenge HMRC, then you are in the hands of HMRC. HMRC are not settling at the moment!

Just an aside on this, I did follow my provider's advice which was basically to just flat bat HMRC's request for information. Further, professional advice suggested that deliberate obstruction was not viewed kindly by HMRC. Be very careful - especially in any correspondence to HMRC.

To cut to the chase, Brillo Pad makes the best point - join BG. If nothing else, it'll keep you sane.

[jbryce]

There are 3 options: -
1. Follow promoters advice. - my promoter is active and my last contact with them was earlier today where they have stated they are putting info together. Question here is, can the scheme promoter be trusted? After all they will not be thinking of me as a priority.

2. Join Big Group since the 2019 loan tax was announced how has this impacted biggroup? Excuse my lack of ignorance here but were BG not created to try to come to a fair settlement for us contractors in this situation? If the 2019 loan tax ruling over rules then what his the gain of joining BG?

3. Pay HMRC. question is what amount, when? Why? Are HMRC aware of what loans were recieved and when? Or do they estimate?

The scheme promoter will disappear as soon as it gets hot. Are they still the 'same' promoter, or the same individuals at a different company? My 'old' promoter is still around, albeit in a new form, insisting that the 2019 charge does not apply to their 'arrangement'. That, of course, is total b0l0xs.

BG is actively seeking a means of finding a solution. You'll need to join to get more information.

You can try and get a settlement agreement with HMRC and they'll be happy to take your cash. If you're going down this route get some advice.

[BrilloPad]

There are 3 options: -
1. Follow promoters advice. - my promoter is active and my last contact with them was earlier today where they have stated they are putting info together. Question here is, can the scheme promoter be trusted? After all they will not be thinking of me as a priority.

2. Join Big Group since the 2019 loan tax was announced how has this impacted biggroup? Excuse my lack of ignorance here but were BG not created to try to come to a fair settlement for us contractors in this situation? If the 2019 loan tax ruling over rules then what his the gain of joining BG?

3. Pay HMRC. question is what amount, when? Why? Are HMRC aware of what loans were recieved and when? Or do they estimate?

For me personally: -
1. I would follow scheme providers advice unless they ask for money
2. If you want to challenge HMRC, BG is the only way forward. HMRC will play hard ball - however a large number of people paying a (relatively) small amount got decent legal advice is the only way forward.
3. If you do not want to challenge HMRC, then you are in the hands of HMRC. HMRC are not settling at the moment!

[Diamond1]

There are 3 options: -
1. Follow promoters advice. - my promoter is active and my last contact with them was earlier today where they have stated they are putting info together. Question here is, can the scheme promoter be trusted? After all they will not be thinking of me as a priority.

2. Join Big Group since the 2019 loan tax was announced how has this impacted biggroup? Excuse my lack of ignorance here but were BG not created to try to come to a fair settlement for us contractors in this situation? If the 2019 loan tax ruling over rules then what his the gain of joining BG?

3. Pay HMRC. question is what amount, when? Why? Are HMRC aware of what loans were recieved and when? Or do they estimate?

[BrilloPad]

If they have asked for 10% back would that confirm to HMRC that it is what it is - a loan?

Would the scheme provider recall a loan on the basis they can show to hmrc that they are loans?

If the above is the case would tax still be required to be paid to the remaining 90%?

And,
Will the 2019 loan tax override everything thing above?

The scheme provider claims to have something up their sleeve. Of course, being specific would give the game away to HMRC!

Someone who repaid the 10% asked for the money back. The provider refused. That 10% is probably lost for good.

The more the issue is looked at, the murkier it gets. And the more questions you can ask. No-one seems to know any answers.

There are 3 options: -
1. Follow promoters advice.
2. Join Big Group
3. Pay HMRC.

[Diamond1]

If the scheme provider is still active they will have to pass details to HMRC.

One scheme provider has already asked for 10% of the loan back.

If they have asked for 10% back would that confirm to HMRC that it is what it is - a loan?

Would the scheme provider recall a loan on the basis they can show to hmrc that they are loans?

If the above is the case would tax still be required to be paid to the remaining 90%?

And,
Will the 2019 loan tax override everything thing above?

[ChimpMaster]

If the scheme provider is still active they will have to pass details to HMRC.

One scheme provider has already asked for 10% of the loan back.

Scheme provider, or Trust?

[BrilloPad]

So;

If the scheme provider is no longer available , there is 0 chance of getting required information that HMRC potentially require.

If the scheme provider is still active then there is a chance that the loan would have to be repaid? What are the chances the scheme provider will assist with providing detail to HMRC? Could they possibly provide any information that could change the outcome?

(Ps. I am shifting my way though the many posts on here to gain further knowledge)

If the scheme provider is still active they will have to pass details to HMRC.

One scheme provider has already asked for 10% of the loan back.

[webberg]

So;

If the scheme provider is no longer available , there is 0 chance of getting required information that HMRC potentially require.

If the scheme provider is still active then there is a chance that the loan would have to be repaid? What are the chances the scheme provider will assist with providing detail to HMRC? Could they possibly provide any information that could change the outcome?

(Ps. I am shifting my way though the many posts on here to gain further knowledge)

You need professional advice because you are entering a world in which little is going to make sense.

I suggest that you try and find a group with more people who have used the scheme you did and start there.

[Diamond1]

So;

If the scheme provider is no longer available , there is 0 chance of getting required information that HMRC potentially require.

If the scheme provider is still active then there is a chance that the loan would have to be repaid? What are the chances the scheme provider will assist with providing detail to HMRC? Could they possibly provide any information that could change the outcome?

(Ps. I am shifting my way though the many posts on here to gain further knowledge)

[webberg]

So even if you accept that there is a "benefit" to HMRC in allowing tax avoidance to continue for a period (a claim that would be easy to rebut), it is way short of showing that HMRC has the power to act against firms or individuals offering arrangements.

[DotasScandal]

How are these companies still operating?!

https://www.dotas-scandal.org/top-10...dance-schemes/